Leveraging Strengths Amid Constant Change

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast.

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I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, along with my brother, Peter.

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And we have a fantastic guest today, Tiffany Harvey.

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Welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast.

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-Thank you, Daniel and Peter.

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I'm honored to be here.

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Really excited about today.

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-And we are going to be diving into a topic,

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a topic that has been swirling around for quite a while,

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and it's all about strengths.

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What are strengths?

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How do we leverage them?

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And especially, how do we as leaders leverage our strengths

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amid such constant change all around us?

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How do we tap into these strengths?

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What does it look like?

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We want to tackle all of these aspects here today.

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So, because Tiffany is such a great expert here,

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let me share a little bit about her bio so that everybody else can get to know her,

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and then we'll dive into some questions.

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So first of all, Tiffany Harvey,

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seasoned HR and learning and development professional

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as a Gallup certified CliftonStrengths coach,

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and client partner to Gallup.

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She actually led the strength program at Southwest Airlines for five years,

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where they earned the Gallup Strengths

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Strengths-Based Culture Award for three consecutive years.

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So fantastic bit of history and recognition there.

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Fantastic.

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So Tiffany, again, welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast.

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And we want to start off with a question.

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And the question is, what really are strengths?

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And it's a deceptively easy question,

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but I think there are lots of misperceptions

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around what the heck is a... is a strength.

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So could you just kind of ground us?

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What, what are...

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What are strengths?

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-Yeah, that's a great question.

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You know, strengths, when we think about strengths as a standard definition,

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it's really the things that you bring to the table that really serve you well.

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And that can... the facet of that is huge, right?

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When we're referencing strengths in this conversation,

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we're really talking about Gallup's CliftonStrengths.

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And so that is the tool, the assessment

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that individuals can actually take is more of a talent theme sorter.

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And so it's not meant to be a label or put someone in a box.

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But much like other assessments that are out there,

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it's a fantastic and very validating, very positive tool

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to help you identify thoughts, feelings, behaviors,

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said talents that when productively applied,

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those outcomes at a near perfect performance really shine.

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So, it's not telling you what you can or can't do,

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but how you do those things.

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-And so, following up here, what is... what are they not?

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Because I think we can group strengths and lots of things.

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They could be amazing.

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What are strengths not?

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-Yeah, I'm glad you asked that.

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You know, they're not labels.

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They're not meant to,

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you know, make people feel boxed in,

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or people that reference them as a you're a high responsibility,

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which is one of the strength names.

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So, you must do X.

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They're also not excuses for behavior.

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And a lot of people say, well, because I have high belief,

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which is another strength name,

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I'm really within my core convictions,

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so I can't change or be flexible or think differently

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or a little bit more open-minded.

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So they're not those things.

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They're really meant to serve the purpose of,

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from a positive psychology perspective,

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helping people identify the things that they're naturally good at

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as far as how they show up to do those things,

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and then to navigate the things that they're not necessarily leading with

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from a talent perspective,

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but not excusing it away to not ever do those things.

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And there are 34 talent themes or strengths that come with this assessment,

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and everyone has talent.

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And everyone has all 34 strengths that Gallup classifies.

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It's how you show up and lead within your top 10

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that really make the difference for you in day to day.

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-I appreciate you elaborating on that and helping us think about strengths

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in different ways and how to leverage them.

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And I think we're obviously going to keep diving into this exploration of strengths,

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but you can't go too far into strengths

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without bringing up the word that so often is paired with strengths.

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-Yeah.

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-And that's what's viewed as the opposite:

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weakness.

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-Yeah.

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-What... why are we focusing on strengths as opposed to weaknesses?

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And what drives that focus?

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-It's a great question as well.

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So I think Don Clifton, who was part of Gallup,

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was a big founding member of CliftonStrengths and really created that tool,

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he talks specifically about that.

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Instead of focusing on what we don't do well, let's focus on what we do well.

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And I think if you go to, let's say, a therapy appointment

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or you're conversing with someone

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and they want to focus on how to fix it,

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and that's always a big thing, right?

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Like, let me go in and dive in and just resolve this

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or help you navigate this a little bit differently.

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This really took a different approach.

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And the research that was, you know,

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grounded in about four decades of research really popped through.

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Let's focus on what you really are capable of

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and how that can show up for you to help you feel better

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and accomplish the things

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versus try to reverse course, make you something that you're not,

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force you into something that doesn't feel natural

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because you might trip over yourself,

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and then maybe you partner with those around you

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who are better at some things than you are,

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which sometimes can be tough.

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You know, we're big achievers in our society.

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We want to be the one to own it all

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and do it all and have that sense of reliability.

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However, we can't do it all, and people really do need one another.

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And so that's a little bit of the delineation there on

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we don't want to focus on what you don't do well, it's... you know,

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I'm never going to be a pro basketball player, right?

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I'm just not, right?

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I can barely dribble the ball.

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I don't have that great coordination.

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So why put myself through the torture of doing that constantly every day

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only to be maybe mediocre at best

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when there are people who do it very, very well?

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-Keep going with some of this

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because I think sometimes as we look at strengths,

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-Mm hmm.

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-there might be some that I might look at and go, hey, I want that.

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And so, you know, can I go and learn and train and become better at it?

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And so that's one aspect.

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And the other is, do these strengths... do they change as we age?

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Do they become more refined or do some get retired and others emerge?

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You know, how do they kind of fluctuate, come and go in our lives?

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And can we change any of that?

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-Yeah, I love your thinking here.

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I think these are very typical questions when individuals take this assessment.

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So your first question is, you look at your entire report data.

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So you've got these 34 talent themes that have sorted out for you.

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And there's a lot of really good, very detailed information

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that is output in your report.

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The report itself, if you take the assessment and you get your full 34

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is what we call it versus just your top five,

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you can look at the detail that really outlines and aggregates the data

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from your 1 through 34 themes

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that really are unique and specific to you.

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And so your exact strengths

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and the order in which they sequentially output within the Gallup report

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is one in 33 million just in the top five with that exact output.

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It's very unique to the individual.

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And even if you find a strengths twin...

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So even if, say, Daniel, you and Peter had the exact top five,

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which would be extremely rare,

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your data is going to look different

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because it is aggregated information all the way through your report,

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and some of that information may not look exactly like one another

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because we are unique as people.

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So if I were to say, I have a little strengths envy, is what we'll call it,

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I really wish I had more focus

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because that might be my number 28 or 29 in my report.

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Instead, I have something else called Woo,

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which is my number one,

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and I'm all over the place, right,

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I like to network and talk to people and I draw energy from others

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but I have a harder time being more of that execution type style

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where I need to sit down, focus, and get things done out the door.

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And so the goal is not to think about

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how do I move my focus upward into my top 10,

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but it's more about how do I navigate that?

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What other strengths can I use within my top 10, within my realm of talent,

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to help me feel a little bit more focused,

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and know thyself,

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and maybe spend some time in considering

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I need to carve out some uninterrupted space for myself

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where I'm not going to be distracted by other people,

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where I want to socialize naturally,

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and think about how I can get that work done.

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And so, if you continue to invest and invest and invest

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in a strength that may be a little bit lower in your realm,

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it doesn't mean you can't focus.

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But to focus on that specific one may hinder you

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from doing things more optimally.

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So why spend time learning how to dribble that basketball

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for 10 hours a day,

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only to realize that had I had that natural talent

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a little bit more in that top 10 area,

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I would be able to shoot hoops and dribble basketballs all day long.

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So in other words,

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if you're thinking about a strength that you wish you had,

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think again.

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You probably have it in there somewhere.

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You're just using your other strengths to sub in a little bit for that.

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So I do get a question a lot from leaders who say,

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“Oh gosh, my number 34 strength is strategic.

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How am I ever going to think strategically as a leader?

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That's part of my core competency.

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What will I do?”

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And I often say to them

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what I learned from Gallup early on with some of this work is,

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“Well, you think, don't you?”

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”Well, yeah, yeah. Sure. You think.”

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”Okay, well then there's some strategy in there.

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You're able to create a plan.

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You're functioning in life.”

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The same thing with communication.

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“Oh, my communication's over 34.

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How will I ever get this information out effectively?”

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Because you are able to communicate,

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but you may use other strengths to pull from it.

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It may not articulate the way that a person

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with high communication can do so naturally.

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So, there's a little bit of that understanding

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and giving yourself the ability to embrace

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that it's okay that that's not what you lead with

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because you have other talents that you definitely do.

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-It's such a helpful way to reframe that.

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And I think it's somewhat counter to a lot of the way

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we're taught or raised or educated.

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-Yeah.

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-As you're trying to achieve that and look...

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What's everybody around?

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And that term you used of strength's envy.

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I can say I've definitely experienced strength's envy

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-Yeah.

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-over my life as I look at what other people can do.

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-Yeah, yeah, I think you're both really spot on here.

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I think when we grow up, right,

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and we have teachers and counselors and coaches and employers who say,

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“Oh, this is what you're doing wrong.

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Let's go ahead and figure out how we can fix that,

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or how we can navigate that,

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or how we can improve this.”

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And so, as a society, we are so laser-focused on that,

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and how we just can do better.

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Instead, it's about identifying, again,

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not what you can or can't do, but how you do it.

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And that's what these strengths are really showcasing for yourself.

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And so you don't really necessarily mature and grow in one strength,

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but you are able to not necessarily think about your strengths

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and using those singularly,

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but pairing them up to get things done.

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Or even better,

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partnering with someone that you know brings that natural talent

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that can help you navigate or work through

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00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:05,041
to get that work across the finished line.

252
00:13:05,458 --> 00:13:07,750
-Yeah that synergy makes such a difference.

253
00:13:08,166 --> 00:13:08,500
-It does.

254
00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:10,041
-So let's expand on this

255
00:13:10,041 --> 00:13:13,583
because we will often hear this term of leverage your strengths.

256
00:13:14,166 --> 00:13:17,125
You know, what does that really mean from your vantage point?

257
00:13:17,125 --> 00:13:21,208
And how can leaders really utilize that perspective?

258
00:13:21,833 --> 00:13:27,083
-Yeah, so leveraging your strength is really being very contextual to use your strength.

259
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:33,458
So Gallup has a model built around name, claim, aim your strengths.

260
00:13:33,833 --> 00:13:37,541
Naming your strengths is not necessarily memorizing those strengths,

261
00:13:37,541 --> 00:13:41,500
but identifying and being able to recall what those strengths are,

262
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:43,708
at least if you know one or two of those, right?

263
00:13:43,708 --> 00:13:46,833
Like, what are my top one or two strengths that show up for me daily?

264
00:13:47,375 --> 00:13:50,708
And then, claim is about embracing your strengths,

265
00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:54,625
and feeling good and enjoying who you are.

266
00:13:54,625 --> 00:13:55,625
And you know what?

267
00:13:55,625 --> 00:13:57,666
That's a good thing that I show up with this.

268
00:13:58,208 --> 00:14:01,708
And then the aim part is a little bit more of that sticky part.

269
00:14:01,708 --> 00:14:03,750
Like we have to be very intentional.

270
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,791
And that's the leveraging of your strength.

271
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,666
You're intentional about taking that strength and utilizing it.

272
00:14:12,166 --> 00:14:16,333
That's where you get the best output for yourself every day,

273
00:14:16,333 --> 00:14:19,125
and that you're really operating on the (inaudible).

274
00:14:19,666 --> 00:14:21,291
-Is it possible to

275
00:14:21,875 --> 00:14:27,916
over-leverage one's strengths to then use and work your strengths too much?

276
00:14:27,916 --> 00:14:30,333
And how does that come about?

277
00:14:30,333 --> 00:14:31,875
How to prevent it?

278
00:14:32,750 --> 00:14:33,875
What would you say to that?

279
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,375
-Oh, yes, absolutely.

280
00:14:36,375 --> 00:14:37,750
I talk about this quite often.

281
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:41,000
They're called blind spots, is how Gallup references those.

282
00:14:41,625 --> 00:14:44,583
And with a blind spot, because all strengths are good,

283
00:14:44,583 --> 00:14:46,958
there's not one better than the other, right?

284
00:14:46,958 --> 00:14:51,375
They're neutral, they're all very positive, and a good way to think.

285
00:14:51,958 --> 00:14:56,166
You can definitely overuse a strength where it can become a hindrance.

286
00:14:56,625 --> 00:15:00,041
And if that happens, you're really tripping over yourself.

287
00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:03,708
And so there you have to put some guardrails up to kind of identify

288
00:15:04,041 --> 00:15:07,625
how may I be overusing a particular strength?

289
00:15:08,041 --> 00:15:11,375
So, if I lead with communication as a strength

290
00:15:12,125 --> 00:15:14,000
am I going to dominate the room?

291
00:15:14,208 --> 00:15:18,708
That doesn't give me that excuse to do so or dominate that conversation.

292
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,708
So you have to temper that at times and know your audience.

293
00:15:23,291 --> 00:15:28,208
And I have a strength called context and another strength called input.

294
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:33,166
Context is all about history and a little bit of caution with that.

295
00:15:33,166 --> 00:15:37,041
And let's make sure that we don't repeat mistakes based on what we've done.

296
00:15:37,333 --> 00:15:40,583
And then the other strength, input, is all about details.

297
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,541
And so I often say to people, I'm quite riveting in my conversation, right?

298
00:15:45,541 --> 00:15:48,083
Because I want to talk about the details of history.

299
00:15:48,458 --> 00:15:50,583
But then you see the eyes glaze over

300
00:15:50,583 --> 00:15:52,833
with some of the people you're conversing with,

301
00:15:52,833 --> 00:15:56,208
and you think, oh, maybe you're not into this as much.

302
00:15:56,416 --> 00:16:01,458
And so it's really being aware of yourself and with your audience

303
00:16:01,458 --> 00:16:03,791
to make sure that you don't overdo it,

304
00:16:04,166 --> 00:16:06,625
that you don't make delays occur

305
00:16:06,625 --> 00:16:08,666
because you've got high deliberative

306
00:16:08,666 --> 00:16:10,958
and you're really assessing risk.

307
00:16:11,333 --> 00:16:15,916
Or you are over-communicating, overthinking.

308
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,625
If you've got high analytical, which is another strength,

309
00:16:20,041 --> 00:16:23,541
are you looking at root cause too deeply

310
00:16:23,541 --> 00:16:25,916
and that you just can't get past yourself

311
00:16:26,125 --> 00:16:30,125
to deliver some sort of outcome or decision,

312
00:16:30,333 --> 00:16:32,083
which is not uncommon.

313
00:16:32,208 --> 00:16:34,708
So you just have to really navigate that very carefully.

314
00:16:35,125 --> 00:16:38,541
-As our listeners are hearing this conversation about strengths,

315
00:16:38,541 --> 00:16:41,708
and some may have been exposed to the strengths finders,

316
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,083
you know, assessment, others may have not.

317
00:16:44,208 --> 00:16:44,583
-Yeah.

318
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:47,500
What suggestions do you have for those that

319
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:50,791
may not have taken it or be exposed to just...

320
00:16:51,375 --> 00:16:51,791
-Yeah.

321
00:16:51,791 --> 00:16:54,958
-What are natural ways to help identify some of our own strengths?

322
00:16:54,958 --> 00:16:57,083
-Yeah, I think that's a great question.

323
00:16:57,083 --> 00:17:00,000
So I'm a huge advocate of the tool itself

324
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,083
because it really helps to validate some of that specific data.

325
00:17:03,333 --> 00:17:05,791
If you have not taken that assessment,

326
00:17:06,208 --> 00:17:11,125
you can absolutely identify what you need and what you bring to the table.

327
00:17:11,583 --> 00:17:15,208
Funny enough, Gallup actually has an activity that circulates around

328
00:17:15,458 --> 00:17:19,791
organizations and individuals that help people identify

329
00:17:20,416 --> 00:17:22,291
this is exactly what I bring.

330
00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:24,125
This is exactly what I need.

331
00:17:24,125 --> 00:17:28,583
So, if you apply that or leverage that into the work environment even,

332
00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:32,708
it's thinking through what am I good at?

333
00:17:33,041 --> 00:17:34,583
What really shows up for me

334
00:17:34,583 --> 00:17:39,000
where I can actually add value to a conversation or to a project?

335
00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:44,125
Or even a social setting to some sort of fun event.

336
00:17:44,333 --> 00:17:46,666
You know, where can I play a part?

337
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,500
And then what do I need in return?

338
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,250
And if you think about from a work perspective that could be,

339
00:17:53,541 --> 00:17:57,458
I really need saying clear direction and expectation,

340
00:17:57,666 --> 00:18:00,125
or how I'm going to be measured in something,

341
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:03,541
or what is expected from the outcome in this goal.

342
00:18:04,041 --> 00:18:08,166
And so, if you can figure out and maybe even write that down,

343
00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:10,666
because you may have that recorded in your mind,

344
00:18:10,666 --> 00:18:12,458
but other people can't read that.

345
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:17,208
So, put it to paper and explain that to someone you're working with.

346
00:18:17,708 --> 00:18:21,666
And then there's the other aspect of this activity, which can be,

347
00:18:22,041 --> 00:18:26,166
you know, this is... you can count on me to do this for you.

348
00:18:26,166 --> 00:18:29,958
This is really where you can lean into me and utilize my talents.

349
00:18:30,416 --> 00:18:32,333
And you can go back and reflect.

350
00:18:32,333 --> 00:18:35,916
Where are people giving you feedback to tell you,

351
00:18:35,916 --> 00:18:37,291
“You know what you're really good at?

352
00:18:37,291 --> 00:18:38,791
You're so approachable.

353
00:18:39,083 --> 00:18:40,583
You've got such a great ear.

354
00:18:40,583 --> 00:18:42,833
Thanks for helping me with this.”

355
00:18:43,083 --> 00:18:48,208
Or even, “I can really lean into you to help develop me.

356
00:18:48,541 --> 00:18:50,250
And you've been a great mentor,

357
00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:52,083
or helped me kind of think through some goals,

358
00:18:52,083 --> 00:18:53,791
or put that plan together.”

359
00:18:54,208 --> 00:18:57,916
And then, “This is what I need from you in return.”

360
00:18:58,166 --> 00:19:03,208
And really complete that activity to kind of develop that partnership even further.

361
00:19:03,416 --> 00:19:05,041
So there are ways to converge.

362
00:19:05,333 --> 00:19:07,750
You just have to organize the conversation

363
00:19:07,875 --> 00:19:11,583
and considering what you need and what you bring to the table

364
00:19:11,583 --> 00:19:13,083
to get things done together.

365
00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:17,166
-It sounds like it's really that kind of reflective activity

366
00:19:17,583 --> 00:19:22,208
of kind of seeing what sort of feedback have you gotten from others

367
00:19:22,791 --> 00:19:25,791
as well and assembling that and thinking, oh, okay.

368
00:19:26,166 --> 00:19:27,875
That is an indication, perhaps.

369
00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:31,000
And I... and let me add one thing and see what you think about it.

370
00:19:31,375 --> 00:19:34,125
It's also what energizes you.

371
00:19:34,833 --> 00:19:39,375
If you get more energy as you do that behavior

372
00:19:39,375 --> 00:19:43,166
or that activity, that often is a strengthening,

373
00:19:43,625 --> 00:19:45,416
or ultimately a strength.

374
00:19:45,625 --> 00:19:49,083
And if something kind of drains you or weakens you,

375
00:19:50,125 --> 00:19:54,708
that's often an indication that that might not be a strength of yours.

376
00:19:55,041 --> 00:19:58,541
Now, there might be needs for us in a moment

377
00:19:58,541 --> 00:20:03,500
to kind of show up and summon up some of that extra energy

378
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:06,250
and put it in areas that we might not normally do that.

379
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:09,125
And this is where I want to start talking about

380
00:20:09,458 --> 00:20:13,250
constant change and stress around us.

381
00:20:13,666 --> 00:20:15,166
So, how do we...

382
00:20:15,916 --> 00:20:18,000
How do we manage our strengths?

383
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,166
How do our strengths show up as we are in constant change?

384
00:20:23,458 --> 00:20:28,083
What should we pay attention to and manage through those moments?

385
00:20:28,083 --> 00:20:32,500
Because those moments seem to be sometimes never-ending

386
00:20:32,791 --> 00:20:35,250
for a few of us in organizations these days.

387
00:20:35,583 --> 00:20:37,583
-So well put, Daniel.

388
00:20:37,916 --> 00:20:38,375
Yeah.

389
00:20:38,375 --> 00:20:41,500
I mean, who recalls even just a few years ago,

390
00:20:41,791 --> 00:20:45,250
how many times did we hear we're living in unprecedented times?

391
00:20:45,666 --> 00:20:48,333
And change fatigue is real.

392
00:20:48,708 --> 00:20:51,958
And there's a lot of research and work around this.

393
00:20:51,958 --> 00:20:55,541
People are certified in change management and how to navigate that.

394
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:59,166
And everyone really navigates change very differently.

395
00:20:59,666 --> 00:21:02,833
And it's the first thing is understanding that

396
00:21:02,833 --> 00:21:05,041
and giving people grace in this space

397
00:21:05,041 --> 00:21:08,500
because you may show up and how you embrace change

398
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:11,875
might look very different from me for a number of reasons.

399
00:21:12,166 --> 00:21:15,791
And that change fatigue and really weigh heavily on each of us.

400
00:21:16,166 --> 00:21:17,875
And so when we're in an environment,

401
00:21:17,875 --> 00:21:21,666
whether it's work, whether it's personal, where there's constant change,

402
00:21:21,958 --> 00:21:24,000
it can feel very disruptive.

403
00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:26,125
It can make us feel stuck.

404
00:21:26,625 --> 00:21:32,166
So you have to think about not throwing all of your strengths

405
00:21:32,166 --> 00:21:33,583
or how you might show up,

406
00:21:34,041 --> 00:21:38,166
to maybe angle that toward embracing that change

407
00:21:38,166 --> 00:21:39,750
or navigating that change,

408
00:21:39,916 --> 00:21:43,291
not about being fearless, like that's not what it means.

409
00:21:43,583 --> 00:21:47,333
You have to really scale it and maybe be very selective

410
00:21:47,333 --> 00:21:51,625
in that leveraging of that intentionality around your strengths.

411
00:21:51,625 --> 00:21:53,208
So maybe you pick one or two.

412
00:21:53,583 --> 00:21:56,375
So for me, if I look at my data and I say,

413
00:21:56,375 --> 00:22:00,666
gosh, I lead with context as a strength, as my number two,

414
00:22:01,416 --> 00:22:06,625
I really need to go back and identify what I have learned from the past.

415
00:22:06,916 --> 00:22:10,000
So for me, it's very easy to go back and say, hmm,

416
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,791
I've had this change in my life.

417
00:22:13,083 --> 00:22:14,750
How did I get through that?

418
00:22:15,041 --> 00:22:19,458
What are some things I did to come out on the other side unscathed?

419
00:22:19,791 --> 00:22:23,083
Or what were some of the lessons I learned on what not to do

420
00:22:23,291 --> 00:22:25,291
and to put those guardrails up,

421
00:22:25,291 --> 00:22:27,083
and to maybe temper some of that

422
00:22:27,083 --> 00:22:29,791
so that I don't repeat the same mistakes?

423
00:22:30,041 --> 00:22:32,791
Not everybody may have that strength that they lead with.

424
00:22:32,958 --> 00:22:36,208
It doesn't mean they can't go to that moment of reflection,

425
00:22:36,708 --> 00:22:40,125
but there are probably some tools and things to think through

426
00:22:40,666 --> 00:22:43,500
if I lead with maybe high discipline,

427
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:45,916
which is a strength that helps you create

428
00:22:45,916 --> 00:22:50,000
maybe a construct or a plan where you like order and methodology,

429
00:22:50,208 --> 00:22:53,458
do I need to map that out for myself again?

430
00:22:53,833 --> 00:22:59,041
Do I need options if I lead with a strategic thinking theme like strategy or strategic?

431
00:22:59,541 --> 00:23:03,708
Maybe I need to think about path A leads here, path B leads here.

432
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,583
I'm going to go with Path C.

433
00:23:05,916 --> 00:23:08,041
That's the path of least resistance.

434
00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:12,916
So it's being very mindful and intentional about selecting one or two strengths

435
00:23:13,208 --> 00:23:18,041
without going all in and putting that pressure on yourself.

436
00:23:18,375 --> 00:23:19,916
I have to get through this.

437
00:23:20,125 --> 00:23:22,333
I've done, I've seen worse things.

438
00:23:22,541 --> 00:23:24,458
I can't believe I'm feeling stuck.

439
00:23:24,791 --> 00:23:28,833
It's okay to validate with yourself that it's a little bit paralyzing.

440
00:23:29,291 --> 00:23:32,666
And that you may need some help to reprioritize things

441
00:23:32,958 --> 00:23:36,583
as you embrace that constant change that may be coming at you

442
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,625
especially at work, but could be from all facets in life, truly.

443
00:23:40,875 --> 00:23:46,291
-No, it's really good to think about how we personally respond

444
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:46,750
-Yeah.

445
00:23:46,750 --> 00:23:48,458
-to these change situations.

446
00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:51,125
And I think a lot of this conversation about strengths

447
00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:53,541
has been focused on that self-identification,

448
00:23:53,875 --> 00:23:55,041
which is so valuable.

449
00:23:55,291 --> 00:23:58,833
And even just that moment to pause and recognize

450
00:23:58,833 --> 00:24:01,875
and ask answer some of those key questions you're asking

451
00:24:02,125 --> 00:24:03,291
about what we're good at.

452
00:24:03,458 --> 00:24:03,750
-Yeah.

453
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:05,750
-What energizes us, those things.

454
00:24:06,083 --> 00:24:07,625
That's powerful for a leader.

455
00:24:08,041 --> 00:24:12,708
But let's pivot a little bit because leaders are not all about themselves.

456
00:24:12,708 --> 00:24:13,208
(laughing)

457
00:24:13,208 --> 00:24:15,083
At least we shouldn't be.

458
00:24:15,083 --> 00:24:16,666
We want to learn about ourselves.

459
00:24:17,083 --> 00:24:20,958
But it's also about trying to bring out the best in those around us.

460
00:24:20,958 --> 00:24:21,291
-Mmm.

461
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:27,166
-How can a leader apply this strengths perspective to those around us?

462
00:24:27,166 --> 00:24:29,250
-Yeah, I think that's so great.

463
00:24:29,250 --> 00:24:30,208
You know, leaders...

464
00:24:30,875 --> 00:24:33,083
You know, leaders are held to higher standards, right?

465
00:24:33,083 --> 00:24:35,541
And they have to be a little bit selfless in this moment.

466
00:24:35,541 --> 00:24:40,041
I mean, the first thing is put your own oxygen mask on first, right,

467
00:24:40,041 --> 00:24:41,166
before assisting others.

468
00:24:41,166 --> 00:24:44,291
There's my airline lingo for all the years at Southwest.

469
00:24:44,583 --> 00:24:46,166
So you have to take care of yourself.

470
00:24:46,166 --> 00:24:49,041
You have to anchor yourself in some of your own well-being needs.

471
00:24:49,458 --> 00:24:51,625
Understand how you show up for yourself

472
00:24:51,916 --> 00:24:55,750
and then be prepared to lean into the people around you.

473
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,333
As a leader, if you have direct reports or even indirect reports,

474
00:24:59,666 --> 00:25:01,333
it's asking and listening.

475
00:25:01,333 --> 00:25:03,958
It's going back to some of those coaching principles.

476
00:25:04,333 --> 00:25:08,041
It's not necessarily consulting or even mentoring,

477
00:25:08,375 --> 00:25:09,750
but really thinking about

478
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:14,125
how do I want to ask the individual across from me or on a call,

479
00:25:14,541 --> 00:25:15,625
how are you doing?

480
00:25:16,291 --> 00:25:17,500
What's working for you?

481
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:18,833
What's not working for you?

482
00:25:19,083 --> 00:25:24,125
What do I need to deflect for you or help remove from an obstacle perspective?

483
00:25:24,541 --> 00:25:28,750
And then maybe even get a little bit more deep and ask,

484
00:25:29,791 --> 00:25:31,875
“How is this change affecting you?

485
00:25:31,875 --> 00:25:33,666
But how are you navigating it?

486
00:25:34,250 --> 00:25:35,583
What have you done before?’

487
00:25:35,583 --> 00:25:38,041
Especially if you know their strengths, but even if you don't,

488
00:25:38,458 --> 00:25:39,791
it's how do you...

489
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:44,416
identify what's going to work well for you this week.

490
00:25:44,583 --> 00:25:45,500
Let's scale it.

491
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:49,333
It's not about jumping into the deep end of the pool and trying to swim.

492
00:25:49,666 --> 00:25:55,041
It's about, all right, I'm going to help you think through a couple of options

493
00:25:55,041 --> 00:25:58,458
where I have noticed that you have navigated this very well.

494
00:25:59,375 --> 00:26:03,375
There's always the question whenever I coach someone is,

495
00:26:03,666 --> 00:26:06,041
you know, how do you want to handle this?

496
00:26:06,208 --> 00:26:07,916
How do you want to go about this?

497
00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:11,333
And oftentimes we might get a little bit of that look of like,

498
00:26:11,833 --> 00:26:13,875
“I don't know, that's why I'm asking you.”

499
00:26:14,333 --> 00:26:16,666
And then I would often reply with,

500
00:26:16,666 --> 00:26:19,083
“Well, what would you advise your best friend to do?”

501
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:23,083
Naturally, they are going to gravitate toward

502
00:26:23,083 --> 00:26:25,250
how they would self-solve

503
00:26:25,708 --> 00:26:27,750
because that's how they show up with that.

504
00:26:27,958 --> 00:26:30,166
And I say, “I think that's a great start.

505
00:26:30,458 --> 00:26:31,541
Let's go there.”

506
00:26:32,208 --> 00:26:34,500
And now, from a next step perspective,

507
00:26:34,666 --> 00:26:37,375
what do you see or what outcomes do you want to see

508
00:26:37,375 --> 00:26:39,375
that comes from this by end of week,

509
00:26:39,625 --> 00:26:41,875
or end of month, or whatever that time is?

510
00:26:42,291 --> 00:26:44,916
And then get them to maybe think through

511
00:26:45,333 --> 00:26:47,666
just some things that you can even share.

512
00:26:49,041 --> 00:26:51,458
As leaders, you know, it's...

513
00:26:51,458 --> 00:26:52,666
It's tough, right?

514
00:26:52,666 --> 00:26:56,833
Because we're trying to navigate the work we have that we're responsible for

515
00:26:57,125 --> 00:26:58,750
and the care of our own employees

516
00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:01,541
while still reminding ourselves we too are human.

517
00:27:01,791 --> 00:27:05,083
So I often tell people that have leaders,

518
00:27:05,375 --> 00:27:07,333
you know, leaders are people too, right?

519
00:27:07,333 --> 00:27:09,125
Like, they're not going to do everything perfect.

520
00:27:09,583 --> 00:27:11,500
But if you can help your employees

521
00:27:11,791 --> 00:27:15,125
through asking and listening versus just consulting,

522
00:27:15,708 --> 00:27:17,291
it will really make a difference

523
00:27:17,291 --> 00:27:21,333
to help them feel like they can maybe open up a little bit more

524
00:27:21,541 --> 00:27:23,833
and think through what values they can bring

525
00:27:23,833 --> 00:27:27,458
and also what they need to the table, exactly what we were talking about.

526
00:27:27,791 --> 00:27:31,000
-I like this perspective-taking questioning

527
00:27:31,291 --> 00:27:34,500
to ask somebody else, how would you go about this?

528
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,875
Or what advice would you have for somebody else?

529
00:27:37,875 --> 00:27:40,541
Or what would somebody else even suggest to you

530
00:27:40,541 --> 00:27:43,375
as a way of kind of opening up

531
00:27:43,791 --> 00:27:46,208
and seeing how they think

532
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:48,291
and what strengths do they have

533
00:27:48,291 --> 00:27:51,125
because they will naturally gravitate to their preferences,

534
00:27:51,125 --> 00:27:53,625
what energizes, what excites them.

535
00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:56,958
So let me ask you a question.

536
00:27:57,125 --> 00:27:59,250
Sometimes you go into an organization

537
00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:03,458
and they are so believing in these strengths

538
00:28:03,458 --> 00:28:05,375
that they might like print them out.

539
00:28:06,083 --> 00:28:08,875
They have them on their cube or their desk.

540
00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:12,458
And I have to admit, I have mixed feelings about that

541
00:28:12,458 --> 00:28:15,208
because it's informative and educational.

542
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,000
And yet, somehow

543
00:28:17,416 --> 00:28:20,416
it can also lead to misperceptions so that,

544
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:24,500
say, I want to have a more strategic, critical conversation.

545
00:28:24,875 --> 00:28:26,541
I go over to you, Tiffany,

546
00:28:26,708 --> 00:28:31,750
and if I don't see strategy somewhere in the strengths, I'm like, oh, great.

547
00:28:32,375 --> 00:28:34,708
She won't be able to do this very well.

548
00:28:35,250 --> 00:28:36,583
I'm going to have to be patient.

549
00:28:37,166 --> 00:28:39,083
No, I'm going to go to talk to somebody.

550
00:28:39,375 --> 00:28:41,875
And yet, that's not the intent.

551
00:28:42,375 --> 00:28:46,916
The intent is to appreciate and start and respect those strengths,

552
00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:49,166
not to step away.

553
00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:52,916
So how do you manage that understanding

554
00:28:52,916 --> 00:28:56,000
of other people's strengths in that process?

555
00:28:56,208 --> 00:29:00,083
-Yeah, gosh, this is a very prevalent question as well.

556
00:29:00,083 --> 00:29:03,666
I think people have a natural fear of being perceived

557
00:29:03,666 --> 00:29:05,416
that they can't get something done

558
00:29:05,416 --> 00:29:08,000
or they can't show up the way they're expected to show up.

559
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:11,791
So, you know, it's a reminder, first of all,

560
00:29:11,791 --> 00:29:18,666
that our data is so unique to us that sometimes if I look at a strength on a report

561
00:29:18,666 --> 00:29:23,666
it's completely outside that standard content or definition that Gallup might even define.

562
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,625
It's so unique to the individual.

563
00:29:25,625 --> 00:29:28,833
So I'll take Achiever as an example.

564
00:29:28,833 --> 00:29:31,458
Achiever is the number one strength in America.

565
00:29:31,958 --> 00:29:35,291
And that's all about stamina, getting things done,

566
00:29:35,541 --> 00:29:39,458
and typically achievers from a standard content perspective

567
00:29:39,833 --> 00:29:46,541
really garner satisfaction by checking things off a list.

568
00:29:46,666 --> 00:29:49,125
So they have a task list a mile long.

569
00:29:49,333 --> 00:29:51,333
And they're going through and they're feeling good.

570
00:29:51,333 --> 00:29:53,875
They might even jot down something because they did it,

571
00:29:53,875 --> 00:29:57,166
but didn't have on their list, just to get that satiation,

572
00:29:57,416 --> 00:29:59,166
check it off, or to cross it out.

573
00:29:59,666 --> 00:30:01,375
And they do this even on the weekends.

574
00:30:01,625 --> 00:30:05,291
I have a little bit of Achiever envy because I don't have that particular strength.

575
00:30:05,625 --> 00:30:09,333
But it is one of those that that's what it's kind of known as.

576
00:30:09,541 --> 00:30:11,875
Now, if you meet someone with Achiever,

577
00:30:12,208 --> 00:30:14,750
they might say, “Yeah, that sounds exactly like me.”

578
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,583
I have coached people who have had number one Achiever in their data,

579
00:30:20,583 --> 00:30:24,625
and they look nothing like the Achiever standard content.

580
00:30:24,875 --> 00:30:28,083
And I'll say, “Don't you love checking things off the list?”

581
00:30:28,083 --> 00:30:31,708
They're like, “Mmmmm...... not really. I mean it's part of it.”

582
00:30:32,125 --> 00:30:36,041
And then I think, oh, whoa, okay, I've not seen this show up before in a report.

583
00:30:36,041 --> 00:30:37,208
How interesting.

584
00:30:37,666 --> 00:30:41,958
And so when you think about people putting these names

585
00:30:41,958 --> 00:30:45,750
with their personal effects on their desk or on their door

586
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:49,166
or even in their their their MS Teens or Zoom,

587
00:30:49,458 --> 00:30:51,500
and because it can show up and integrate,

588
00:30:52,958 --> 00:30:54,250
we go back to some of that.

589
00:30:54,250 --> 00:30:58,000
I often lead with, “Now, how does Achiever show up for you?

590
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,125
I'm curious.”

591
00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:03,291
Without making assumptions, I like to dive in and ask.

592
00:31:03,833 --> 00:31:08,583
And there's nothing more that people love than talking about themselves.

593
00:31:08,916 --> 00:31:12,833
Oh, I can show you here's my Achiever and how that shows up for me.

594
00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:14,208
And I like to be busy

595
00:31:14,541 --> 00:31:18,208
And then I'll ask them, “What's that blind spot you've got there with Achiever?

596
00:31:18,208 --> 00:31:19,916
Is there anything that stands out for you?”

597
00:31:20,375 --> 00:31:21,500
And it could look like,

598
00:31:21,875 --> 00:31:26,458
“Yeah. I look around and wonder why no one's as busy as me.

599
00:31:26,458 --> 00:31:28,166
Why am I doing all of the work?”

600
00:31:28,541 --> 00:31:31,750
And so I might say, “Oh, how do you navigate that?”

601
00:31:32,375 --> 00:31:33,500
And that's tough, right?

602
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:36,625
Like I'm asking more questions than what I'm assuming

603
00:31:36,916 --> 00:31:40,416
because our natural instinct is to make assumptions about people.

604
00:31:40,416 --> 00:31:42,916
Like I can figure that person out in five seconds.

605
00:31:43,458 --> 00:31:44,833
But I say think again,

606
00:31:45,208 --> 00:31:48,541
because you may not necessarily know no matter what,

607
00:31:48,541 --> 00:31:50,833
just like you can't make an assumption on a name

608
00:31:50,833 --> 00:31:52,541
or someone's appearance.

609
00:31:52,875 --> 00:31:56,041
Or maybe they seem very humble, so you think, well,

610
00:31:56,041 --> 00:32:00,750
maybe they don't have the information or the knowledge that I have.

611
00:32:01,458 --> 00:32:05,875
So it's sort of, you know, navigating a lot more than just strengths around that,

612
00:32:05,875 --> 00:32:10,583
but it's asking and getting to know people and exploring and seeking

613
00:32:10,583 --> 00:32:14,750
from a level of curiosity more so than making those assumptions.

614
00:32:15,125 --> 00:32:19,083
-Yeah, that perspective of curiosity is so helpful in so many areas

615
00:32:19,375 --> 00:32:22,833
as we learn and we're not assuming that we know those things.

616
00:32:23,083 --> 00:32:23,416
-Yeah.

617
00:32:23,416 --> 00:32:26,583
-Well, before we wrap this up, Tiffany, I have to ask you,

618
00:32:26,583 --> 00:32:31,791
because you've spent time in an organization that has such a reputation

619
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:32,291
-Yeah.

620
00:32:32,291 --> 00:32:34,000
-of doing so many things so well.

621
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:34,375
-Yeah.

622
00:32:34,375 --> 00:32:36,625
-What are things that you observed that

623
00:32:36,958 --> 00:32:38,875
at your time at Southwest Airlines

624
00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:41,583
that you think would be helpful for other leaders to hear

625
00:32:41,875 --> 00:32:44,208
and potentially implement in their own areas?

626
00:32:44,416 --> 00:32:46,750
-Yeah, you know, I think

627
00:32:46,750 --> 00:32:51,916
I spent many, many years with the strengths program at Southwest,

628
00:32:51,916 --> 00:32:53,041
which was already launched.

629
00:32:53,041 --> 00:32:55,500
You know, Gallup had gone in in 2012

630
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:58,250
and laid out this entire foundation for the program,

631
00:32:58,250 --> 00:33:01,541
did a lot of work with a couple of our departments from a grassroots perspective,

632
00:33:01,541 --> 00:33:06,166
and then it just grew and flourished to thousands and thousands of employees.

633
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:09,458
I'm getting the opportunity to take the assessment

634
00:33:09,458 --> 00:33:12,833
and then begin diving in with some education and partnership.

635
00:33:13,541 --> 00:33:15,875
The biggest thing that I can see that I took away

636
00:33:15,875 --> 00:33:17,916
that really spoke to my heart

637
00:33:17,916 --> 00:33:19,916
because I have a lot of love for Southwest

638
00:33:19,916 --> 00:33:21,291
and a lot of love for strengths,

639
00:33:21,833 --> 00:33:29,958
is that I watched people change just in real time of maybe

640
00:33:30,833 --> 00:33:36,708
you know, tolerating, you know, differences to actually celebrating those differences.

641
00:33:37,125 --> 00:33:41,541
And so it really aligned with one of those values that Southwest really promotes,

642
00:33:41,541 --> 00:33:44,583
which is foster that sense of belonging.

643
00:33:44,958 --> 00:33:49,875
So it's making sure that people feel included, that their opinions count,

644
00:33:49,875 --> 00:33:51,791
and there's a lot of love at Southwest.

645
00:33:51,791 --> 00:33:56,583
People really do unite and love one another in that organization.

646
00:33:56,583 --> 00:34:00,416
And so that's just the expectation as an employee and especially as a leader.

647
00:34:00,916 --> 00:34:02,500
But we are different.

648
00:34:02,750 --> 00:34:05,500
And we do bring different perspectives and opinions.

649
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:09,125
And I may not deliver something or think through something the way that you do,

650
00:34:09,291 --> 00:34:10,458
and that's okay.

651
00:34:10,958 --> 00:34:15,625
This really became a tool in our toolbox to hone in on the belief

652
00:34:15,625 --> 00:34:18,458
that it's okay that we are different.

653
00:34:18,833 --> 00:34:21,541
And it's not that you're trying to irritate me

654
00:34:21,541 --> 00:34:24,375
or that you're slow to get this stuff done.

655
00:34:24,583 --> 00:34:28,166
It's because you're thinking about it differently or approaching that differently.

656
00:34:28,458 --> 00:34:31,916
And then we began to celebrate one another with those unique differences

657
00:34:31,916 --> 00:34:35,833
so that I would intentionally seek out individuals to say,

658
00:34:36,125 --> 00:34:40,458
“I need a second set of eyes on this, and you have high maximizer in your strength.

659
00:34:40,708 --> 00:34:43,041
I'd love your perspective on this.”

660
00:34:43,333 --> 00:34:46,958
So that there doesn't become this kind of push-pull, and I'm going to own that,

661
00:34:46,958 --> 00:34:50,291
and you don't need to, and I'm going to covet my area.

662
00:34:50,458 --> 00:34:53,666
It became a bigger partnership for everyone.

663
00:34:53,916 --> 00:34:57,041
And that partnership grew to this magnitude

664
00:34:57,041 --> 00:35:00,458
that more people were soliciting one another for input and growth.

665
00:35:00,750 --> 00:35:04,041
And it really just aligned well with the culture at Southwest.

666
00:35:04,208 --> 00:35:04,916
-I love it.

667
00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:05,916
I love it.

668
00:35:06,250 --> 00:35:07,625
This is fantastic, Tiffany.

669
00:35:07,625 --> 00:35:11,250
So as we wrap up here, here's the final question.

670
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:14,708
It's a question we ask many of our guests.

671
00:35:15,250 --> 00:35:17,083
It's the one thing question.

672
00:35:17,083 --> 00:35:18,166
And so here it is.

673
00:35:18,708 --> 00:35:24,416
What's the one thing, what's the one takeaway for that leaders should use

674
00:35:24,416 --> 00:35:29,625
and keep in mind as we then use strengths-based

675
00:35:30,041 --> 00:35:32,000
to help us lead well?

676
00:35:32,333 --> 00:35:34,416
What would you say that one thing is?

677
00:35:34,708 --> 00:35:39,291
-Yeah, I would say listen to your employees.

678
00:35:40,250 --> 00:35:42,125
Validate, right?

679
00:35:42,416 --> 00:35:44,583
So don't make assumptions.

680
00:35:44,958 --> 00:35:49,833
And if there's anything that I could recommend for any leader,

681
00:35:49,833 --> 00:35:56,625
it's reminding yourself that the way that you do things is the right way.

682
00:35:57,208 --> 00:36:01,625
The way someone who works with you or works for you does it differently

683
00:36:01,625 --> 00:36:03,916
is also the right way.

684
00:36:04,250 --> 00:36:09,083
So as you're assigning tasks or thinking about specific outcomes,

685
00:36:09,625 --> 00:36:14,708
t's not how you might march to this, it's how they might actually operate.

686
00:36:15,083 --> 00:36:16,708
And respecting that

687
00:36:17,083 --> 00:36:20,666
and just putting up some guardrails so they don't go off the cliff with this,

688
00:36:20,875 --> 00:36:25,583
but that truly they are able and empowered to get things done,

689
00:36:25,583 --> 00:36:28,291
even if it's a different approach than what you would take.

690
00:36:28,625 --> 00:36:31,791
If the work is getting done, it's getting done.

691
00:36:32,208 --> 00:36:34,875
And that was always a struggle for me as a leader is

692
00:36:34,875 --> 00:36:37,833
I wanted my team to do things the way that I would do it,

693
00:36:37,833 --> 00:36:39,375
and it worked well for me.

694
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:41,750
It's okay to think a little bit differently.

695
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:44,875
And I had a fantastic leader who thought differently from me

696
00:36:45,166 --> 00:36:48,958
and let me shine who I was while we operated very differently.

697
00:36:48,958 --> 00:36:52,000
So, that would be the one thing I would say is just

698
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,791
keep that in the back of your mind

699
00:36:54,041 --> 00:36:58,750
so that you can help your team really optimize the way that they would naturally.

700
00:36:59,083 --> 00:36:59,875
-That's great.

701
00:36:59,875 --> 00:37:01,041
Tiffany, thank you.

702
00:37:01,041 --> 00:37:05,083
And thank you so much for being part of the Leadership Growth Podcast today.

703
00:37:05,333 --> 00:37:06,500
-Thank you both so much.

704
00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:08,375
Again, it's such an honor to be here.

705
00:37:08,375 --> 00:37:09,875
I really appreciate the time.

706
00:37:10,166 --> 00:37:12,625
-And to all of our listeners, thank you for joining us.

707
00:37:12,625 --> 00:37:17,666
And we certainly hope you've been able to take away several different tips,

708
00:37:17,666 --> 00:37:20,083
and insights, and tools to help you

709
00:37:20,583 --> 00:37:22,625
along your leadership journey.

710
00:37:22,875 --> 00:37:23,541
All the best.

711
00:37:23,541 --> 00:37:26,041
We look forward to having you join us in a future episode

712
00:37:26,041 --> 00:37:27,541
and like and subscribe.

713
00:37:27,541 --> 00:37:29,125
And until the next time,

714
00:37:29,375 --> 00:37:30,583
all the best, everyone.

715
00:37:30,583 --> 00:37:31,083
Take care.

716
00:37:31,708 --> 00:37:34,875
If you like this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague.

717
00:37:35,041 --> 00:37:38,916
Or, better yet, leave a review to help other listeners find our show.

718
00:37:39,416 --> 00:37:42,458
And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

719
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,416
For more great content

720
00:37:44,416 --> 00:37:46,791
or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you

721
00:37:46,791 --> 00:37:51,708
grow your ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com.