Connecting Strategy with Talent Development, Part 1

1 00:00:08,625 –> 00:00:09,291 Hey, everybody. 2 00:00:09,583 –> 00:00:12,583 Welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast. 3 00:00:13,583 –> 00:00:17,000 I’m your host, Daniel Stewart, along with my brother, Peter Stewart. 4 00:00:17,708 –> 00:00:19,666 And we’re here to talk about tools and ideas 5 00:00:19,666 –> 00:00:22,750 to help you grow yourself as a leader. 6 00:00:23,333 –> 00:00:24,541 So welcome back, everybody. 7 00:00:24,833 –> 00:00:28,833 And if this is the first time, welcome to a fantastic conversation. 8 00:00:29,500 –> 00:00:36,458 So today’s topic, how do you sync up development with strategy? 9 00:00:37,208 –> 00:00:42,833 Because so many times we hear of training experiences where it’s kind of like 10 00:00:42,833 –> 00:00:45,416 the flavor of the week or the latest great idea, 11 00:00:45,416 –> 00:00:47,541 and they all can be helpful and interesting. 12 00:00:47,541 –> 00:00:51,208 But how do you sequence it up to the overall strategy 13 00:00:51,208 –> 00:00:56,916 of talent development and helping business leaders engage in that 14 00:00:56,916 –> 00:01:01,916 strategy and that development instead of having them kind of one-off efforts? 15 00:01:01,916 –> 00:01:03,875 So that’s the topic today. 16 00:01:03,875 –> 00:01:09,166 But before we dive into that, Peter, you had a recent client experience. 17 00:01:09,833 –> 00:01:12,625 And I think it would be really good to share that. 18 00:01:12,750 –> 00:01:16,083 What was it about that client experience that would be helpful to share? 19 00:01:17,208 –> 00:01:18,625 Yeah, happy to talk about it. 20 00:01:18,625 –> 00:01:20,625 And it’s always good to join for another episode. 21 00:01:20,625 –> 00:01:23,916 And thanks for promising that it’s going to be a wonderful conversation. 22 00:01:24,416 –> 00:01:25,750 Well you set the bar high. 23 00:01:25,750 –> 00:01:26,541 -Yeah, exactly. 24 00:01:27,041 –> 00:01:27,625 -Exactly. 25 00:01:28,250 –> 00:01:29,125 But no, it was great. 26 00:01:29,125 –> 00:01:33,625 So recently I was helping to facilitate, it was an innovation 27 00:01:34,291 –> 00:01:36,500 summit conference for a team. 28 00:01:37,000 –> 00:01:41,083 And what I love about those sorts of engagements, 29 00:01:41,083 –> 00:01:42,208 those sorts of events, 30 00:01:42,541 –> 00:01:47,250 is you bring all these wonderful talented individuals together 31 00:01:47,708 –> 00:01:49,541 and you give them space to develop. 32 00:01:50,166 –> 00:01:53,875 So for this organization, they brought in, it was about 16 or 17 33 00:01:54,166 –> 00:01:57,958 high potential individuals, and gave them a couple days. 34 00:01:58,458 –> 00:02:00,500 We had some instruction on innovation 35 00:02:00,500 –> 00:02:03,333 and helped broaden their horizon on what it meant. 36 00:02:03,916 –> 00:02:06,500 But it gives them space to look at some of the challenges 37 00:02:06,916 –> 00:02:11,041 that the organization is facing, some of the customer expectations, 38 00:02:11,416 –> 00:02:15,875 how you anticipate those, and to really develop some novel new ways. 39 00:02:16,500 –> 00:02:20,583 And the energy that comes when you bring those groups of people together 40 00:02:20,875 –> 00:02:21,750 is so contagious. 41 00:02:22,625 –> 00:02:25,666 And then they had the opportunity to share their ideas with 42 00:02:25,666 –> 00:02:28,250 some of the executive team at the end of the summit. 43 00:02:28,500 –> 00:02:31,333 And so then they get energized by it. 44 00:02:31,416 –> 00:02:34,541 And it was just a reminder to me of one, 45 00:02:34,541 –> 00:02:38,291 when you don’t just talk the talk of innovation, but you actually schedule 46 00:02:38,875 –> 00:02:41,708 and look for ways to enhance it. 47 00:02:42,458 –> 00:02:46,666 But then just that, all of the side benefits from doing it, 48 00:02:47,291 –> 00:02:50,458 whether or not some of these ideas actually come to fruition or not, 49 00:02:51,250 –> 00:02:52,750 the entire group was energized. 50 00:02:52,750 –> 00:02:55,333 They’re going to go talk to their colleagues when they get back 51 00:02:55,583 –> 00:02:59,208 to their respective base, home bases, you know? 52 00:02:59,375 –> 00:03:03,708 The executives kept talking about it afterwards of “What great ideas, 53 00:03:03,708 –> 00:03:07,500 and I never thought about combining these two products together for this offering. 54 00:03:07,500 –> 00:03:11,125 And the way they looked at what— man, what they could build with AI 55 00:03:11,125 –> 00:03:13,333 in a matter of a day just blew my mind.” 56 00:03:13,333 –> 00:03:14,791 Like those sorts of things. 57 00:03:15,375 –> 00:03:19,625 So I think we can think about how do we promote those 58 00:03:19,625 –> 00:03:21,541 innovative ideas in our organizations. 59 00:03:22,125 –> 00:03:26,458 So you’re saying this was not across multiple organizations at a conference. 60 00:03:26,458 –> 00:03:31,458 You were saying this is within one organization, and they came and they invited. 61 00:03:31,708 –> 00:03:36,541 How did they decide who was to come to this innovation summit? 62 00:03:38,208 –> 00:03:39,083 That was a good question. 63 00:03:39,083 –> 00:03:41,125 And this was the first one they did. 64 00:03:41,458 –> 00:03:44,375 So they really just kind of thought, hey, here’s some individuals 65 00:03:44,375 –> 00:03:47,625 that we’ve had our eyes on or thought that they’re really 66 00:03:47,625 –> 00:03:51,166 in kind of some influential roles, some pivotal market leads 67 00:03:51,166 –> 00:03:53,583 and other things like that to bring them together. 68 00:03:54,416 –> 00:03:58,750 And in fact, the dialogue afterwards is, how do we expand this next time? 69 00:03:58,750 –> 00:04:01,541 And how do we bring a few more people in 70 00:04:01,541 –> 00:04:03,583 for another cohort or things like that? 71 00:04:03,583 –> 00:04:08,416 But yeah, it was all within a single organization is what they were doing. 72 00:04:08,916 –> 00:04:09,083 Yeah. 73 00:04:09,625 –> 00:04:13,791 And I’m curious, what sort of ground rules did they set 74 00:04:13,791 –> 00:04:18,958 or did they provide general ideas of areas to focus in on? 75 00:04:19,541 –> 00:04:20,791 How did they frame that up? 76 00:04:21,916 –> 00:04:22,166 Yeah. 77 00:04:22,166 –> 00:04:25,791 So this one, we spent kind of the morning of that first day 78 00:04:25,791 –> 00:04:29,666 really diving into some of the fundamentals of innovation, 79 00:04:29,666 –> 00:04:34,500 how you promote it, prompt it, how it fits within the culture at that organization. 80 00:04:34,958 –> 00:04:40,125 And then they started to get an assignment in which there were some ideas 81 00:04:40,583 –> 00:04:45,041 that they were able to expand on and they’ve broken up into teams. 82 00:04:45,708 –> 00:04:50,250 And we ran an idea lab, like a World Cafe format facilitation 83 00:04:50,250 –> 00:04:53,458 to help break out and get down some of those ideas. 84 00:04:53,458 –> 00:04:58,166 And then that second day was a lot of just building out their solutions, 85 00:04:58,166 –> 00:04:59,500 working in their teams. 86 00:04:59,500 –> 00:05:01,041 They were about four or five in a team. 87 00:05:01,250 –> 00:05:01,583 -Yeah. 88 00:05:02,416 –> 00:05:04,791 Getting ready for a presentation at the end of that second day. 89 00:05:06,250 –> 00:05:10,541 How did you help the senior team, the executives, 90 00:05:10,958 –> 00:05:13,916 know what to say or what not to say at the end? 91 00:05:14,541 –> 00:05:17,833 And there’s a story behind this that I’ll share, 92 00:05:18,666 –> 00:05:20,333 but give me a sense… 93 00:05:20,625 –> 00:05:23,333 How did the executives show up? 94 00:05:23,666 –> 00:05:26,375 How did they, what did they say or not at the end? 95 00:05:28,000 –> 00:05:30,791 We really kind of briefed them in terms of 96 00:05:30,791 –> 00:05:33,208 they knew what the assignment was. 97 00:05:33,708 –> 00:05:36,250 They knew they’d been working on this for just about a day 98 00:05:36,250 –> 00:05:40,208 and a half on the project and that the teams were excited 99 00:05:40,208 –> 00:05:44,583 to share the ideas and they were there to ask questions, 100 00:05:44,875 –> 00:05:47,208 to be able to share some thoughts and ideas. 101 00:05:47,708 –> 00:05:52,083 But it wasn’t a, you know, let’s try and pick things apart 102 00:05:52,541 –> 00:05:55,500 and dig into it to make… 103 00:05:55,500 –> 00:05:57,708 So we tried to keep it on a positive note. 104 00:05:57,833 –> 00:05:58,750 -Yeah, yeah. 105 00:05:59,750 –> 00:06:02,291 So you asked the question for a reason. 106 00:06:02,291 –> 00:06:03,208 (laughing) 107 00:06:03,208 –> 00:06:04,291 What’s behind that? 108 00:06:05,416 –> 00:06:05,791 Yeah. 109 00:06:05,916 –> 00:06:09,750 So I led an innovation summit several years ago 110 00:06:10,041 –> 00:06:14,375 and at end of the two days, the senior leadership team came in 111 00:06:14,666 –> 00:06:17,000 and listened to all of the presentations 112 00:06:17,625 –> 00:06:21,791 and just totally shot holes through all of them, 113 00:06:22,208 –> 00:06:23,791 didn’t adopt a thing, 114 00:06:24,166 –> 00:06:27,791 and began to tell everybody why they were wrong. 115 00:06:28,000 –> 00:06:30,625 (laughing) 116 00:06:30,625 –> 00:06:35,250 And it was, I’m laughing now because otherwise I would be crying. 117 00:06:35,666 –> 00:06:38,958 And it was one of the most like before the end, 118 00:06:38,958 –> 00:06:43,750 it was one of the most empowering, energizing, like innovative, 119 00:06:43,750 –> 00:06:44,916 great ideas. 120 00:06:45,833 –> 00:06:49,583 And they were, it was just shot down and people left 121 00:06:49,875 –> 00:06:51,541 so demoralized. 122 00:06:51,541 –> 00:06:52,000 (laughing) 123 00:06:52,000 –> 00:06:52,958 (laughing) -Oh no. 124 00:06:53,083 –> 00:06:53,583 -It was… 125 00:06:53,708 –> 00:06:58,333 And I’ll never forget, like the CEO, I was coaching him and his team, 126 00:06:58,958 –> 00:07:00,916 saying, this is how you want to respond. 127 00:07:01,166 –> 00:07:01,625 Please. 128 00:07:01,625 –> 00:07:06,500 And he’s like, wow, you are really concerned about the responses at the end. 129 00:07:06,500 –> 00:07:07,916 And I’m like, yes. 130 00:07:08,500 –> 00:07:10,083 And I did everything I could. 131 00:07:10,708 –> 00:07:14,208 But anyway, it was one of those big learning moments. 132 00:07:14,666 –> 00:07:16,916 It’s a learning opportunity for all involved. 133 00:07:17,500 –> 00:07:17,750 -Yeah. 134 00:07:18,416 –> 00:07:18,666 Yeah. 135 00:07:18,666 –> 00:07:18,916 -Yup. 136 00:07:19,708 –> 00:07:20,250 Interesting. 137 00:07:20,250 –> 00:07:22,791 So, great idea though, to do it the right way 138 00:07:22,791 –> 00:07:26,083 and to then frame it up, a lot of great innovation summits. 139 00:07:26,500 –> 00:07:28,541 And what I love about the example is 140 00:07:28,833 –> 00:07:33,708 it’s a bit of a free moment to allow people to explore and there’s 141 00:07:33,708 –> 00:07:37,583 all sorts of great ideas of Google, you know, 20% of your time. 142 00:07:38,625 –> 00:07:42,083 And that’s been used as kind of a yardstick, pros and cons 143 00:07:42,083 –> 00:07:43,291 with all of these things. 144 00:07:43,666 –> 00:07:48,875 But the point is to unleash in formal ways that innovative thinking. 145 00:07:50,166 –> 00:07:50,583 -Yeah. 146 00:07:50,958 –> 00:07:53,375 And there’s so many ways innovation can come about. 147 00:07:53,500 –> 00:07:56,000 I mean, it doesn’t have to be a new product offering. 148 00:07:56,000 –> 00:07:58,541 It can be an innovation in a process of how it’s done, 149 00:07:58,541 –> 00:08:00,125 both internal or external facing. 150 00:08:00,125 –> 00:08:01,750 And there’s lots of opportunities. 151 00:08:02,291 –> 00:08:05,125 And this one was more focused on an outward facing side, 152 00:08:05,125 –> 00:08:05,416 -Mm hmm. 153 00:08:05,416 –> 00:08:07,625 but even getting feedback from the group afterwards, 154 00:08:07,625 –> 00:08:10,375 it’s how do you even expand the degrees of freedom 155 00:08:10,833 –> 00:08:13,166 in terms of those topics that they can select from. 156 00:08:13,500 –> 00:08:15,291 And as I’ve been involved in a few of these, 157 00:08:15,833 –> 00:08:18,583 the more degrees of freedom you give that group, 158 00:08:19,125 –> 00:08:21,875 I think it exponentially increases the ideas. 159 00:08:22,250 –> 00:08:23,208 -That’s fantastic. 160 00:08:24,083 –> 00:08:27,875 So segueing from this innovation comment, 161 00:08:28,458 –> 00:08:32,500 innovation is often one of those skills that leaders need 162 00:08:32,500 –> 00:08:36,375 and they want to develop in addition to a long list of other skills. 163 00:08:37,000 –> 00:08:39,791 And so the question we want to tackle today, Peter, 164 00:08:40,333 –> 00:08:45,291 is whether it’s innovation or whether it’s communication or coaching 165 00:08:45,291 –> 00:08:48,500 or managing change or strategic thinking, 166 00:08:48,916 –> 00:08:51,125 all sorts of different skill sets 167 00:08:51,375 –> 00:08:54,083 that leaders need to develop and improve upon. 168 00:08:54,791 –> 00:08:57,666 How do we help do that, 169 00:08:58,375 –> 00:09:01,708 we as leaders and all of us as we’re listeners here, 170 00:09:02,250 –> 00:09:04,083 and do it in a strategic way, 171 00:09:04,625 –> 00:09:06,541 so it’s not just one offs? 172 00:09:06,791 –> 00:09:08,875 Now, maybe that’s the place to start, 173 00:09:09,291 –> 00:09:12,375 but ultimately, how do we more clearly connect it 174 00:09:12,916 –> 00:09:15,125 to the strategy of the organization 175 00:09:15,416 –> 00:09:18,208 and to a broader, more specific talent strategy? 176 00:09:18,875 –> 00:09:21,541 And that’s where we want to connect those dots 177 00:09:22,041 –> 00:09:24,916 and to be able to help us have that conversation. 178 00:09:24,916 –> 00:09:28,791 I want to introduce our strategic talent framework. 179 00:09:29,125 –> 00:09:33,541 And it’s a three-part framework, and we can use that to guide our conversations. 180 00:09:33,958 –> 00:09:37,416 The first part is all about determining. 181 00:09:37,833 –> 00:09:40,666 Determining the talent strategy, 182 00:09:40,666 –> 00:09:44,125 determining the skills, determining the critical positions, 183 00:09:44,125 –> 00:09:49,750 determining the overall need and focus of the workforce development effort. 184 00:09:50,541 –> 00:09:53,666 And then the second stage is to discuss. 185 00:09:54,083 –> 00:09:56,333 And this is where you have the talent reviews 186 00:09:56,333 –> 00:09:58,791 and the succession planning conversations 187 00:09:59,083 –> 00:10:01,500 and the more formal conversations around 188 00:10:01,833 –> 00:10:05,583 how do we feel these folks are, in objective ways, 189 00:10:06,083 –> 00:10:11,250 against the skills that are needed within those positions? 190 00:10:12,166 –> 00:10:14,875 And then that leads to the third phase, which is the development, 191 00:10:15,250 –> 00:10:19,166 syncing up the development to the overall talent strategy 192 00:10:19,458 –> 00:10:23,250 and the conversations around the talent review and succession 193 00:10:23,708 –> 00:10:28,375 and getting very specific around the skills and approaches to then develop 194 00:10:28,375 –> 00:10:30,750 and then repeat and keep going. 195 00:10:30,750 –> 00:10:36,708 So this determine, discuss, and develop, we want to dive deeper into. 196 00:10:37,166 –> 00:10:41,666 So Peter, as you’re here in this framework, what are initial thoughts 197 00:10:41,666 –> 00:10:44,166 that are going through your head as you’ve done this 198 00:10:44,166 –> 00:10:47,416 for so many different client organizations over the years? 199 00:10:47,958 –> 00:10:50,166 Where should we begin with this? 200 00:10:51,458 –> 00:10:55,458 Yeah, it’s a question that comes up so often as we get involved, 201 00:10:55,458 –> 00:10:58,250 and particularly as we get to know clients even better 202 00:10:58,250 –> 00:11:00,500 and get to know their organizations and the pain points 203 00:11:00,500 –> 00:11:06,041 and some of the common struggles organizations have to fill that talent gap, 204 00:11:06,541 –> 00:11:09,833 to really understand what is the level of talent we have? 205 00:11:10,416 –> 00:11:13,833 How do we develop and improve and identify those individuals 206 00:11:13,833 –> 00:11:17,250 who are going to be the future leaders of this organization? 207 00:11:18,041 –> 00:11:18,458 And… 208 00:11:19,583 –> 00:11:22,291 And there’s often, it just gets overwhelming. 209 00:11:22,875 –> 00:11:27,000 And I think we can look at this very, I say simply, 210 00:11:27,000 –> 00:11:30,916 and recognizing it’s not simple, but we can look at this just, 211 00:11:30,916 –> 00:11:33,958 I think, at a basic level of, let’s just take an example 212 00:11:33,958 –> 00:11:38,000 of a succession planning conversation and how that is illustrated 213 00:11:38,291 –> 00:11:39,625 with these three Ds. 214 00:11:40,166 –> 00:11:42,708 Because this framework applies to so many things. 215 00:11:42,708 –> 00:11:45,666 But if we’re looking at succession planning, okay, determining. 216 00:11:46,291 –> 00:11:50,208 How does one determine how an individual is doing, 217 00:11:50,666 –> 00:11:54,208 where they are being plotted or placed or assessed 218 00:11:55,250 –> 00:11:57,000 based on an organization’s need? 219 00:11:57,333 –> 00:12:00,750 So this is where a nine-box framework might come into play 220 00:12:00,750 –> 00:12:03,250 or other tools of that nature. 221 00:12:03,958 –> 00:12:08,541 So you have that determination, and then you’re not just doing that exercise in a bubble. 222 00:12:09,708 –> 00:12:12,625 It’s coming and bringing people together to talk about it, 223 00:12:13,041 –> 00:12:14,208 to have that conversation. 224 00:12:14,208 –> 00:12:18,333 And this is where that talent review, this discussion part happens, 225 00:12:18,708 –> 00:12:21,583 in which you’re able to get feedback from multiple people 226 00:12:21,791 –> 00:12:27,416 across an organization so that there’s an awareness of the talent that is there. 227 00:12:27,750 –> 00:12:29,791 And then finally, we’re not just stopping of, okay, yep, 228 00:12:29,791 –> 00:12:33,416 we all agree they’re in this box on the plot. 229 00:12:34,083 –> 00:12:36,666 No, no, now we’re looking at, okay, these are strengths. 230 00:12:36,833 –> 00:12:38,291 These are areas of opportunities. 231 00:12:38,916 –> 00:12:39,708 What are we doing? 232 00:12:39,708 –> 00:12:41,083 What plan is in place? 233 00:12:41,083 –> 00:12:43,458 How are we giving them opportunities to grow? 234 00:12:43,750 –> 00:12:46,666 Because that’s really the whole point of this whole process. 235 00:12:47,166 –> 00:12:49,166 It’s not just, ah, we feel good. 236 00:12:49,416 –> 00:12:50,791 Everybody’s plotted on their chart. 237 00:12:51,375 –> 00:12:54,125 Now we can go back and talk about it again in a year. 238 00:12:56,083 –> 00:12:58,250 And unfortunately, it kind of feels like it is that way. 239 00:12:58,250 –> 00:13:03,250 So that’s kind of a quick, again, summary of that determine, discuss, 240 00:13:03,750 –> 00:13:05,083 develop side of it. 241 00:13:05,875 –> 00:13:08,416 So let’s dig a little deeper as we think about determining. 242 00:13:09,125 –> 00:13:11,833 What tips or suggestions would you give, Daniel? 243 00:13:12,500 –> 00:13:15,500 And that’s where I go back to, like, what the heck 244 00:13:15,500 –> 00:13:17,375 is the strategy of the organization? 245 00:13:18,166 –> 00:13:20,083 And how do we approach talent? 246 00:13:20,625 –> 00:13:24,458 And let’s be upfront about it, because there are some organizations 247 00:13:24,458 –> 00:13:27,666 that it’s kind of an up or out talent approach. 248 00:13:28,291 –> 00:13:32,500 If you’re not ready to get promoted in 12, 18, 24 months, 249 00:13:32,916 –> 00:13:35,166 then we’re not going to invest in you. 250 00:13:35,625 –> 00:13:37,500 And that’s not where we’re going to focus. 251 00:13:37,833 –> 00:13:40,333 And I want to be clear, none of this is right or wrong. 252 00:13:41,000 –> 00:13:46,541 It’s matching that talent strategy with the strategy of the business 253 00:13:46,916 –> 00:13:48,833 and being upfront about it with people. 254 00:13:49,750 –> 00:13:53,458 Maybe that’s a talent strategy of we are a lifer. 255 00:13:53,833 –> 00:13:56,375 We want you to build a career here. 256 00:13:56,750 –> 00:14:00,041 And we’re going to then help you have lots of options 257 00:14:00,041 –> 00:14:03,666 and continue to develop in position for a long time 258 00:14:03,666 –> 00:14:08,708 and or move you around in various places and give you potential opportunities. 259 00:14:09,125 –> 00:14:12,666 That’s a distinctly different approach as well. 260 00:14:12,833 –> 00:14:15,791 There might be other considerations such as, 261 00:14:16,083 –> 00:14:20,333 are you a smaller organization in a high growth situation? 262 00:14:20,916 –> 00:14:24,583 All right, then the talent philosophy is going to be very different 263 00:14:24,583 –> 00:14:26,583 and it’s going to be rapid, it’s going to be fast, 264 00:14:26,583 –> 00:14:28,000 it’s going to be skill development. 265 00:14:29,000 –> 00:14:32,250 Are you going to be maybe in a situation where maybe it’s 266 00:14:32,250 –> 00:14:36,750 you’re in a larger organization and it’s maybe a little slower 267 00:14:37,041 –> 00:14:39,166 of a marketplace or an industry 268 00:14:39,375 –> 00:14:42,708 or you’re more of a mature organization and it’s larger. 269 00:14:43,958 –> 00:14:48,208 You may not be able to be promoted in even 270 00:14:48,208 –> 00:14:52,583 four or five or seven years because it’s a slower moving thing. 271 00:14:52,583 –> 00:14:57,416 And especially if that organization values loyalty or tenure, 272 00:14:58,333 –> 00:15:00,291 then that’s a distinct talent strategy. 273 00:15:00,583 –> 00:15:02,291 Let’s be upfront and be clear about it. 274 00:15:02,500 –> 00:15:07,291 All these are important to be very specific about. 275 00:15:07,791 –> 00:15:12,125 And they go into that talent strategy statement. 276 00:15:12,500 –> 00:15:14,916 And that’s where we often will start with clients 277 00:15:14,916 –> 00:15:18,083 to be able to be… let’s write these talent statements. 278 00:15:18,500 –> 00:15:24,416 We are committed to, we believe in, we want to support people who. 279 00:15:24,958 –> 00:15:28,166 All of these are statements to be able to help express 280 00:15:28,583 –> 00:15:32,666 what people can expect to manage their own expectations. 281 00:15:33,291 –> 00:15:38,916 And then as we’ve developed that, it then helps us recognize, 282 00:15:39,166 –> 00:15:43,750 or rather the organization to recognize what should we do next? 283 00:15:44,458 –> 00:15:49,000 And how many different positions are we going to invest in? 284 00:15:49,833 –> 00:15:52,875 And is it everybody, all positions? 285 00:15:53,583 –> 00:15:56,750 Are we going to emphasize certain positions more than others? 286 00:15:57,583 –> 00:16:02,208 And that’s then this next conversation around these critical positions. 287 00:16:02,541 –> 00:16:06,750 And I’ll just say, this can be so hard 288 00:16:07,708 –> 00:16:13,250 because nobody likes to hear that your position is not critical. 289 00:16:14,666 –> 00:16:17,291 And so I’ll, I’ll, I’ll define that more clearly. 290 00:16:17,666 –> 00:16:22,250 A critical position is one that is very hard to fill 291 00:16:22,750 –> 00:16:29,208 and/or takes at least six plus months to get somebody fully proficient in. 292 00:16:30,833 –> 00:16:36,875 And then either one of those, and it has a significant value add 293 00:16:37,291 –> 00:16:39,750 to the most strategic parts of the business. 294 00:16:40,666 –> 00:16:41,125 -Mm hmm. 295 00:16:41,833 –> 00:16:43,916 -Now that’s not every position. 296 00:16:44,291 –> 00:16:49,125 So you have critical positions and then you also have important positions. 297 00:16:50,250 –> 00:16:52,958 Nearly all of the other positions are important. 298 00:16:53,583 –> 00:16:56,500 They might not be as critical, important. 299 00:16:56,708 –> 00:17:00,666 And then you have essential and those essential positions. 300 00:17:00,791 –> 00:17:05,333 So we often think of in those categories, but the critical positions, 301 00:17:05,333 –> 00:17:09,583 they deserve the most attention to be able to develop… 302 00:17:10,708 –> 00:17:11,708 talent for. 303 00:17:12,000 –> 00:17:14,833 Anyway, that that’s the place to then go next. 304 00:17:16,000 –> 00:17:18,666 And it’s so helpful to have that because it, 305 00:17:18,958 –> 00:17:20,583 it provides a filter. 306 00:17:21,166 –> 00:17:23,625 Because especially when we’re talking about large organizations, 307 00:17:23,625 –> 00:17:25,708 or even if you’re doing this within a business unit 308 00:17:25,708 –> 00:17:29,500 of a large organization across, like it can be overwhelming. 309 00:17:30,083 –> 00:17:32,916 And I think that’s one of the main reasons why so often 310 00:17:33,250 –> 00:17:36,250 these talent-based initiatives and frameworks, 311 00:17:37,000 –> 00:17:39,041 they stop before they really get to the end 312 00:17:39,833 –> 00:17:42,958 because you don’t want to offend anybody by not including them. 313 00:17:42,958 –> 00:17:43,666 It’s just too… 314 00:17:43,916 –> 00:17:44,625 So what level? 315 00:17:44,625 –> 00:17:47,375 And, and you go, well, we’re just going to start at this level, 316 00:17:47,375 –> 00:17:48,791 but that’s taking a lot of work. 317 00:17:48,791 –> 00:17:51,958 And by the time you’re thinking that waterfall trickle-down approach 318 00:17:51,958 –> 00:17:55,041 to get down within all levels of an organization, 319 00:17:55,666 –> 00:17:58,500 it’s like, oh man, we’ve stopped. 320 00:17:58,916 –> 00:17:59,708 You know? It just… 321 00:18:00,000 –> 00:18:02,750 So you’re having that first off, 322 00:18:02,750 –> 00:18:05,666 having those talent strategy statements are powerful 323 00:18:06,333 –> 00:18:08,791 because it helps to then give the focus on 324 00:18:08,791 –> 00:18:12,083 what it is we’re looking for and why we’re doing it. 325 00:18:12,791 –> 00:18:17,958 And then to make sure you’re focusing first on those most critical positions. 326 00:18:18,541 –> 00:18:20,791 And so even right there, it’s given it a good place to, 327 00:18:21,125 –> 00:18:24,500 to start because you can’t do it with everybody all at once. 328 00:18:24,708 –> 00:18:25,041 -Yeah. 329 00:18:25,666 –> 00:18:26,041 Okay. 330 00:18:26,041 –> 00:18:31,541 So when clients ask you, how many positions should we focus on? 331 00:18:32,583 –> 00:18:36,791 That is an important question, hard to answer. 332 00:18:37,416 –> 00:18:42,041 I often will say, let’s try to make it as small 333 00:18:42,041 –> 00:18:46,583 of a number as we can, at least for year one. 334 00:18:47,750 –> 00:18:53,208 And the top leaders, the five or six or seven in the leadership role, yes. 335 00:18:53,875 –> 00:18:55,166 Maybe the next level. 336 00:18:56,666 –> 00:18:58,458 And let’s stop there. 337 00:18:59,208 –> 00:19:02,958 And or maybe there’s one or two other key feeder positions 338 00:19:02,958 –> 00:19:06,000 or another VP or another director level. 339 00:19:06,541 –> 00:19:08,250 Can we just do that right? 340 00:19:08,791 –> 00:19:11,166 You know, tackle that for year one. 341 00:19:11,625 –> 00:19:16,041 We can always expand versus let’s do all people leaders 342 00:19:16,333 –> 00:19:19,041 or let’s do everybody in the organization. 343 00:19:19,416 –> 00:19:22,458 And when you start getting into hundreds and hundreds of people 344 00:19:22,458 –> 00:19:24,500 and hundreds of positions, 345 00:19:25,125 –> 00:19:26,958 especially if you’re just starting, 346 00:19:27,708 –> 00:19:29,708 or you were kind of rebooting. 347 00:19:30,458 –> 00:19:31,208 Overwhelming. 348 00:19:31,875 –> 00:19:37,416 And not all of those positions are equal in value to the business, 349 00:19:37,416 –> 00:19:40,250 hence focusing on the critical ones. 350 00:19:40,750 –> 00:19:42,125 20, 25, 30. 351 00:19:42,125 –> 00:19:45,708 I’m realizing I’m answering my own question and let me shut up, 352 00:19:45,708 –> 00:19:46,083 (laughing) 353 00:19:46,083 –> 00:19:46,500 (laughing) Peter. 354 00:19:46,500 –> 00:19:47,750 (laughing) 355 00:19:47,750 –> 00:19:49,291 How would you answer this? 356 00:19:49,291 –> 00:19:50,833 (laughing) 357 00:19:50,833 –> 00:19:52,375 It’s a good answer you’re giving. 358 00:19:52,583 –> 00:19:55,583 I mean, you can give the classic psychological answer of, 359 00:19:55,583 –> 00:19:59,416 well, it depends, you know, because every scenario is a little bit different. 360 00:19:59,416 –> 00:19:59,875 -Yeah. 361 00:19:59,875 –> 00:20:01,958 -But you’re actually reminding me of a situation. 362 00:20:01,958 –> 00:20:06,708 I was recently working with a leadership team of a business unit 363 00:20:07,166 –> 00:20:11,291 and we were really helping to dig in and prioritize 364 00:20:11,291 –> 00:20:14,583 some of their strategic efforts over this next year, 365 00:20:14,833 –> 00:20:17,916 over the subsequent year that was coming up. 366 00:20:18,458 –> 00:20:20,083 And they’d identified it. 367 00:20:20,083 –> 00:20:25,791 And one of the challenges they kept having as things kept being put on their plate 368 00:20:25,791 –> 00:20:27,791 and why we needed to focus on this prioritization 369 00:20:27,791 –> 00:20:32,125 is there was a small percentage of their overall workforce 370 00:20:32,750 –> 00:20:36,541 that continued to be tapped for all of these extra initiatives. 371 00:20:37,041 –> 00:20:37,416 -Right. 372 00:20:37,708 –> 00:20:41,875 -You know, it’s the same, you know, quarter or so of their total workforce. 373 00:20:42,583 –> 00:20:45,625 And I had to keep pausing and saying, look, 374 00:20:46,166 –> 00:20:48,750 yes, we’re talking about prioritizations here, 375 00:20:49,083 –> 00:20:52,291 but do you recognize prioritization is really not your core issue? 376 00:20:53,250 –> 00:20:55,000 You have a talent issue. 377 00:20:56,916 –> 00:21:00,250 You have a talent pool that is not being developed 378 00:21:00,500 –> 00:21:03,791 to meet the needs that are required of this organization. 379 00:21:05,125 –> 00:21:09,041 And that turned it totally on its ear because then you have the opportunity 380 00:21:09,041 –> 00:21:12,541 to build out these talent statements to be able to say, well, wait a minute, 381 00:21:13,166 –> 00:21:14,666 why are we limiting ourselves? 382 00:21:15,250 –> 00:21:18,375 What are we doing to grow and build and identify the needs? 383 00:21:18,708 –> 00:21:22,583 Do we have individuals that are not performing that or are not in the right role? 384 00:21:23,291 –> 00:21:26,208 You know, and so just to broaden that and that’s really 385 00:21:26,208 –> 00:21:29,833 where we’re getting into more of that discussion conversation 386 00:21:30,166 –> 00:21:31,541 as you start to identify 387 00:21:32,000 –> 00:21:32,375 -Yeah. 388 00:21:32,375 –> 00:21:33,875 and determine these things. 389 00:21:34,541 –> 00:21:38,750 I love that because it raises it back to a strategic conversation 390 00:21:39,083 –> 00:21:42,583 and it takes it away from the person per se 391 00:21:42,791 –> 00:21:45,000 and focuses on the work itself 392 00:21:45,000 –> 00:21:47,375 and what’s really needed and where the value is. 393 00:21:47,708 –> 00:21:51,041 And then you can insert the person in the skill set to say, 394 00:21:51,458 –> 00:21:52,291 are they aligned? 395 00:21:52,291 –> 00:21:55,833 How can we help them be most successful in that current role? 396 00:21:57,000 –> 00:22:00,666 Or what conversations do we need to have with them 397 00:22:01,000 –> 00:22:05,458 to accelerate their development because they aren’t doing as well? 398 00:22:05,791 –> 00:22:07,958 Or we need to have that tough conversation 399 00:22:07,958 –> 00:22:10,291 to shift them to a different role. 400 00:22:10,625 –> 00:22:15,458 And that strategic viewpoint then often will help accelerate 401 00:22:15,458 –> 00:22:21,333 and identify the conversations we need to have that maybe are not being held. 402 00:22:22,458 –> 00:22:22,833 -Yeah. 403 00:22:23,333 –> 00:22:24,916 And they’re not the easy conversations. 404 00:22:24,916 –> 00:22:28,291 It also helps you see where you have gaps in skill set 405 00:22:28,875 –> 00:22:30,375 at an organizational level. 406 00:22:31,041 –> 00:22:33,541 And we’ll hear this term strategic hires, 407 00:22:33,916 –> 00:22:35,583 you know, it gets thrown around all the time 408 00:22:35,833 –> 00:22:37,458 and it can mean a lot of different things. 409 00:22:37,458 –> 00:22:42,375 And I think one of the most effective ways to actually make a strategic hire 410 00:22:42,875 –> 00:22:46,083 is to have highlighted and recognize that this is a capability, 411 00:22:46,083 –> 00:22:49,000 this is a skill set that we currently are lacking in. 412 00:22:49,666 –> 00:22:52,125 We need to bring that in from the outside 413 00:22:52,125 –> 00:22:55,375 because we can’t just develop it in here. 414 00:22:55,875 –> 00:22:58,125 You bring that in, hopefully then it’s going to spark some other 415 00:22:58,125 –> 00:23:01,208 development and growth around it because people have had experience 416 00:23:01,750 –> 00:23:04,750 seeing this vision at scale at a larger organization 417 00:23:04,750 –> 00:23:08,416 or looking at how a different operation could be executed 418 00:23:08,666 –> 00:23:10,083 than what we currently are doing. 419 00:23:10,416 –> 00:23:10,833 -Yeah. 420 00:23:11,833 –> 00:23:12,250 Yep. 421 00:23:12,500 –> 00:23:18,250 It’s interesting just as the meeting I have right after this recording of the podcast 422 00:23:18,625 –> 00:23:23,666 is to prepare for a talent review for a large manufacturing organization next week. 423 00:23:24,125 –> 00:23:29,208 And this is year two for them as they have rebooted their journey. 424 00:23:29,791 –> 00:23:34,416 And the decision was made to focus on 35 positions. 425 00:23:35,416 –> 00:23:40,500 And we have now, especially in year two, identified with greater clarity 426 00:23:40,500 –> 00:23:44,458 the skills that are going to be needed at each level 427 00:23:45,291 –> 00:23:50,208 and each position, which is also part of that determining first phase. 428 00:23:50,916 –> 00:23:53,958 Once you identify the positions you want to focus on, 429 00:23:54,291 –> 00:23:57,750 what are the skills that are going to be needed? 430 00:23:58,333 –> 00:24:03,583 And it’s okay to start with a broad set of skills across all leaders. 431 00:24:03,916 –> 00:24:05,333 That’s a good place to start. 432 00:24:06,166 –> 00:24:09,291 Five or seven or 10 or something like this that can be 433 00:24:09,291 –> 00:24:12,250 related to your values, your leadership profile, 434 00:24:12,708 –> 00:24:14,125 a great place to start. 435 00:24:14,708 –> 00:24:21,083 And then as organizations continue to mature, you can divide out those skills by level. 436 00:24:22,083 –> 00:24:26,208 And that’s kind of the next stage of looking at 437 00:24:26,208 –> 00:24:31,375 what are the three, four or five skills needed by level, technical, 438 00:24:31,375 –> 00:24:35,416 but especially then the manager and leadership skills that are going to be 439 00:24:35,416 –> 00:24:41,083 most important to help the organization, again, accomplish its strategic goals. 440 00:24:43,625 –> 00:24:44,041 -Yeah. 441 00:24:44,166 –> 00:24:45,958 It makes it very real. 442 00:24:46,458 –> 00:24:48,625 And I think it also helps make it tangible. 443 00:24:49,000 –> 00:24:53,500 So that the decision-making process feels more clear 444 00:24:53,833 –> 00:24:54,333 -Mm hmm. 445 00:24:54,333 –> 00:24:55,416 as you’re working at it. 446 00:24:55,541 –> 00:24:59,666 Because then you have that determining, then we launch into more of the discussion. 447 00:25:00,166 –> 00:25:04,208 And sure, there’s going to be conversations as you’re determining all of these things. 448 00:25:04,750 –> 00:25:07,500 It’s not to say we determine in a bubble, 449 00:25:07,833 –> 00:25:11,625 vacuum in a backroom office, and now we just bring it all out. 450 00:25:12,125 –> 00:25:15,666 You’re going to have people involved and hopefully the right people involved 451 00:25:15,666 –> 00:25:18,625 to be discussing each of these steps along the way. 452 00:25:19,375 –> 00:25:23,291 But as we have identified the critical statements, 453 00:25:23,291 –> 00:25:26,000 the critical positions, those critical skills, 454 00:25:26,791 –> 00:25:31,041 we’re then able to then share that and really then talk about 455 00:25:31,041 –> 00:25:34,083 individuals at a broader level. 456 00:25:34,083 –> 00:25:37,291 And whether that is at a talent review in which you bring 457 00:25:37,291 –> 00:25:41,458 an entire leadership team together and do that or whatever format that might take. 458 00:25:42,208 –> 00:25:48,708 That conversation, it just highlights and it brings out the content, 459 00:25:48,958 –> 00:25:53,958 the materials, the fodder by which then you can build out these development plans. 460 00:25:53,958 –> 00:25:54,291 -Yeah. 461 00:25:55,250 –> 00:25:59,875 And, you know, speaking of this specific example that I was just referencing, 462 00:26:00,833 –> 00:26:03,875 one of the things that we’ve learned about now in year two 463 00:26:04,083 –> 00:26:07,875 is to identify a specific skill for the more senior level leaders 464 00:26:08,375 –> 00:26:10,625 that wasn’t previously identified. 465 00:26:10,916 –> 00:26:13,875 And that skill is to develop talent 466 00:26:14,833 –> 00:26:17,833 and to, as a senior level leader, 467 00:26:18,208 –> 00:26:22,625 one of the skills that we are now expecting you to be good at 468 00:26:23,083 –> 00:26:28,125 is to develop other talent, which in some ways is kind of a duh. 469 00:26:28,583 –> 00:26:32,625 However, it’s not because it’s not always thought of 470 00:26:32,625 –> 00:26:34,500 as part of your job. 471 00:26:34,875 –> 00:26:38,291 But now in year two, we can add that to the skill set 472 00:26:38,666 –> 00:26:44,500 from which we can then view ourselves and see how we are doing in it. 473 00:26:44,833 –> 00:26:49,000 And then we can get, of course, more specific with each different level, 474 00:26:49,375 –> 00:26:53,125 which leads to the other part of this determine process. 475 00:26:53,750 –> 00:27:00,125 And that is to identify and create a talent profile for each person 476 00:27:00,750 –> 00:27:03,500 of which there will be conversations about. 477 00:27:04,166 –> 00:27:10,166 And that talent profile is critical for each person to complete on their own 478 00:27:10,541 –> 00:27:15,875 so that the leaders are able to understand their self-perception. 479 00:27:16,250 –> 00:27:18,875 What are the things they feel they’re good at or not so good at? 480 00:27:18,875 –> 00:27:20,958 And let’s put the performance reviews 481 00:27:20,958 –> 00:27:22,583 so there’s objective criteria. 482 00:27:23,041 –> 00:27:25,291 What are the engagement review information? 483 00:27:25,791 –> 00:27:28,583 Did they complete their goals or not? 484 00:27:28,833 –> 00:27:31,583 Did they hit the deadlines that they agreed to? 485 00:27:31,958 –> 00:27:35,958 These are the objective measures that absolutely need to be included 486 00:27:35,958 –> 00:27:37,375 on a talent profile. 487 00:27:37,833 –> 00:27:42,708 And then also, what are the comments from the boss, their manager? 488 00:27:43,000 –> 00:27:45,291 And that needs to be included on the talent profile, 489 00:27:45,291 –> 00:27:48,208 as well as the aspirations of the person. 490 00:27:48,791 –> 00:27:49,083 The… 491 00:27:49,375 –> 00:27:50,083 The one… 492 00:27:50,250 –> 00:27:51,708 The thing that makes… -That last part. 493 00:27:51,833 –> 00:27:52,125 -Yeah. 494 00:27:52,291 –> 00:27:57,208 -That last part is so important because you can be preparing somebody 495 00:27:57,625 –> 00:28:00,541 to be the next VP or whatever it might be. 496 00:28:00,833 –> 00:28:03,958 If they don’t care and they don’t want to do it, 497 00:28:04,791 –> 00:28:08,625 are you really developing them or is this wasted resources? 498 00:28:09,041 –> 00:28:15,375 So getting their input… again, these are not processes that are done just in isolation, 499 00:28:15,375 –> 00:28:16,791 you know, covert acts. 500 00:28:17,083 –> 00:28:17,416 -Yeah. 501 00:28:18,083 –> 00:28:19,791 They need to be included. 502 00:28:20,666 –> 00:28:23,625 I just wanted to really hit that last part because we’ve seen 503 00:28:23,625 –> 00:28:26,500 where it’s not it’s not even taken into consideration. 504 00:28:27,291 –> 00:28:27,625 -Yeah. 505 00:28:28,083 –> 00:28:28,833 Thank you. 506 00:28:28,833 –> 00:28:30,541 I was going to emphasize that, too. 507 00:28:31,000 –> 00:28:34,583 And yet it may be an opportunity to then talk to the 508 00:28:34,583 –> 00:28:36,708 individual and paint a different picture, 509 00:28:37,083 –> 00:28:38,541 maybe challenge thinking. 510 00:28:38,541 –> 00:28:38,916 Sure. 511 00:28:39,500 –> 00:28:42,958 But it’s not just to assume they’re going to want it. 512 00:28:43,250 –> 00:28:49,250 However, I will say if the talent philosophy is one of a chess master. 513 00:28:50,791 –> 00:28:54,875 In other words, senior level leaders move people around 514 00:28:54,875 –> 00:28:59,708 and it is understood that you are to simply say yes 515 00:29:00,166 –> 00:29:02,583 and that’s under that’s the expectation. 516 00:29:03,000 –> 00:29:04,500 Again, neither right nor wrong. 517 00:29:05,333 –> 00:29:08,708 But that is a… if that’s the strategy. 518 00:29:09,916 –> 00:29:12,541 I don’t know if that’s always as effective, 519 00:29:13,000 –> 00:29:16,041 especially today with people wanting to have more choice. 520 00:29:16,500 –> 00:29:18,291 However, that’s that’s an approach. 521 00:29:19,500 –> 00:29:22,541 The majority of the time, though, what we find, Peter, 522 00:29:22,541 –> 00:29:23,916 just as you were describing, 523 00:29:24,291 –> 00:29:28,083 check in with the person, see what they are after. 524 00:29:28,375 –> 00:29:31,208 And you can educate them as to more possibilities 525 00:29:31,208 –> 00:29:32,708 that they maybe hadn’t thought of. 526 00:29:33,125 –> 00:29:37,166 But check in with them, especially say they’re elderly folks, 527 00:29:37,416 –> 00:29:40,958 are aging and they need to be present in their lives. 528 00:29:41,375 –> 00:29:43,208 They can’t travel as much, perhaps. 529 00:29:43,375 –> 00:29:44,666 Oh, this is good to know. 530 00:29:44,875 –> 00:29:47,416 It has nothing to do with who they are as a person. 531 00:29:47,791 –> 00:29:48,333 No, no, no. 532 00:29:48,458 –> 00:29:50,333 It’s where their life stage is. 533 00:29:50,583 –> 00:29:54,541 Maybe they have young kids and they need to be able to stay close to other… 534 00:29:55,083 –> 00:30:01,083 There’s a variety of factors to consider before plans are made about them. 535 00:30:02,041 –> 00:30:02,333 -Yep. 536 00:30:02,708 –> 00:30:06,083 And I think the last point we’ll make on this part 537 00:30:06,083 –> 00:30:09,916 is recognizing those aspirations and these talent profiles. 538 00:30:10,375 –> 00:30:15,416 It’s been very important that there are at least two clear tracks 539 00:30:15,875 –> 00:30:17,750 and areas of focus for individuals. 540 00:30:18,166 –> 00:30:22,375 We’re not just exclusively focusing on the development of leadership 541 00:30:22,750 –> 00:30:24,541 or people leader talent. 542 00:30:25,125 –> 00:30:29,416 We’re also focusing on the ability and of technical abilities, 543 00:30:29,625 –> 00:30:33,541 you know, that critical competencies, those other areas, 544 00:30:33,541 –> 00:30:37,166 because not everybody is motivated by wanting to be a people manager. 545 00:30:38,083 –> 00:30:41,500 But yet you want to create an atmosphere in which you’re recognizing 546 00:30:41,500 –> 00:30:44,166 achievement on both avenues there. 547 00:30:44,416 –> 00:30:44,666 -Yeah. 548 00:30:44,666 –> 00:30:46,500 -Because you need talent on both sides. 549 00:30:46,500 –> 00:30:49,500 So I think that’s where in that process we have to be 550 00:30:49,500 –> 00:30:53,833 very much aware that we’re not just ignoring one side or the other. 551 00:30:54,958 –> 00:30:58,666 And I think we’ve started elaborating on this so much. 552 00:30:58,666 –> 00:31:00,250 I think we’re going to have to do a part two 553 00:31:00,708 –> 00:31:01,708 (laughing) 554 00:31:01,708 –> 00:31:02,916 of this to get into the three D’s. 555 00:31:02,916 –> 00:31:04,000 I completely agree. 556 00:31:04,000 –> 00:31:09,666 So, listeners, part two will focus on the discussing 557 00:31:09,958 –> 00:31:12,083 and the developing side of this. 558 00:31:12,375 –> 00:31:17,750 So look out for that next episode, which will be coming out soon as well. 559 00:31:18,625 –> 00:31:23,333 So otherwise, Peter, it’s always fun chatting with you about all these things. 560 00:31:23,500 –> 00:31:28,875 Is there a one thing that you’d want to leave people with 561 00:31:28,875 –> 00:31:33,833 as they’re wanting to connect at least that determined part to the development? 562 00:31:33,833 –> 00:31:35,041 What would you want to emphasize? 563 00:31:36,833 –> 00:31:39,041 I think the one thing is going to be two parts. 564 00:31:39,375 –> 00:31:40,125 (laughing) 565 00:31:40,125 –> 00:31:41,041 I’ll expand it. 566 00:31:41,458 –> 00:31:45,375 Is one, you want to be sure and make the strategic connection clear. 567 00:31:45,666 –> 00:31:47,083 That connection to your strategy. 568 00:31:48,291 –> 00:31:49,416 We kind of glossed over it. 569 00:31:49,416 –> 00:31:51,916 And maybe we’ll put some examples of those in the show notes 570 00:31:52,208 –> 00:31:57,416 of what these talent strategy statements are, because those are absolutely essential. 571 00:31:57,791 –> 00:32:00,625 And the second part of it is start small. 572 00:32:01,166 –> 00:32:01,541 -Mmm. 573 00:32:01,541 –> 00:32:05,833 -Start with a group and a size that is reasonable. 574 00:32:05,833 –> 00:32:07,083 Think beta testing. 575 00:32:07,375 –> 00:32:08,291 Think pilot. 576 00:32:09,000 –> 00:32:12,000 So you’re kind to yourself, you’re kind of the process, 577 00:32:12,333 –> 00:32:14,625 and you’re not over promising to an organization 578 00:32:14,625 –> 00:32:17,125 that then you might not be able to fulfill. 579 00:32:19,375 –> 00:32:23,375 Great advice, especially because whoever you focus on, 580 00:32:23,375 –> 00:32:27,750 however many positions, you’re going to want to have development plans for them 581 00:32:28,208 –> 00:32:29,791 and invest in their development. 582 00:32:30,458 –> 00:32:34,541 And let’s do it really well for those positions 583 00:32:34,541 –> 00:32:36,416 and people who add the greatest value 584 00:32:36,875 –> 00:32:40,083 or who can add the greatest value in the future. 585 00:32:40,583 –> 00:32:43,333 Because that’s the other angle for us to pay attention to. 586 00:32:43,958 –> 00:32:45,250 Peter, always a pleasure. 587 00:32:45,500 –> 00:32:48,583 Listeners, thanks so much for joining us as you’re getting 588 00:32:48,583 –> 00:32:53,875 more and more tools and ideas to help you grow your own leadership development 589 00:32:53,875 –> 00:32:57,500 and capability, as well as the leadership of others. 590 00:32:58,250 –> 00:33:01,416 Please like and subscribe and we’ll look forward to having you join 591 00:33:01,416 –> 00:33:02,708 at a future podcast. 592 00:33:02,708 –> 00:33:03,291 Take care, everyone. 593 00:33:04,416 –> 00:33:07,750 If you like this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague. 594 00:33:07,750 –> 00:33:11,583 Or better 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