Connecting Strategy with Talent Development, Part 1

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Hey, everybody.

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Welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast.

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I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, along with my brother, Peter Stewart.

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And we're here to talk about tools and ideas

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to help you grow yourself as a leader.

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So welcome back, everybody.

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And if this is the first time, welcome to a fantastic conversation.

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So today's topic, how do you sync up development with strategy?

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Because so many times we hear of training experiences where it's kind of like

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the flavor of the week or the latest great idea,

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and they all can be helpful and interesting.

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But how do you sequence it up to the overall strategy

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of talent development and helping business leaders engage in that

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strategy and that development instead of having them kind of one-off efforts?

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So that's the topic today.

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But before we dive into that, Peter, you had a recent client experience.

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And I think it would be really good to share that.

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What was it about that client experience that would be helpful to share?

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Yeah, happy to talk about it.

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And it's always good to join for another episode.

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And thanks for promising that it's going to be a wonderful conversation.

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Well you set the bar high.

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-Yeah, exactly.

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-Exactly.

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But no, it was great.

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So recently I was helping to facilitate, it was an innovation

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summit conference for a team.

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And what I love about those sorts of engagements,

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those sorts of events,

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is you bring all these wonderful talented individuals together

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and you give them space to develop.

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So for this organization, they brought in, it was about 16 or 17

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high potential individuals, and gave them a couple days.

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We had some instruction on innovation

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and helped broaden their horizon on what it meant.

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But it gives them space to look at some of the challenges

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that the organization is facing, some of the customer expectations,

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how you anticipate those, and to really develop some novel new ways.

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And the energy that comes when you bring those groups of people together

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is so contagious.

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And then they had the opportunity to share their ideas with

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some of the executive team at the end of the summit.

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And so then they get energized by it.

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And it was just a reminder to me of one,

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when you don't just talk the talk of innovation, but you actually schedule

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and look for ways to enhance it.

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But then just that, all of the side benefits from doing it,

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whether or not some of these ideas actually come to fruition or not,

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the entire group was energized.

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They're going to go talk to their colleagues when they get back

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to their respective base, home bases, you know?

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The executives kept talking about it afterwards of “What great ideas,

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and I never thought about combining these two products together for this offering.

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And the way they looked at what— man, what they could build with AI

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in a matter of a day just blew my mind.”

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Like those sorts of things.

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So I think we can think about how do we promote those

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innovative ideas in our organizations.

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So you're saying this was not across multiple organizations at a conference.

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You were saying this is within one organization, and they came and they invited.

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How did they decide who was to come to this innovation summit?

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That was a good question.

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And this was the first one they did.

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So they really just kind of thought, hey, here's some individuals

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that we've had our eyes on or thought that they're really

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in kind of some influential roles, some pivotal market leads

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and other things like that to bring them together.

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And in fact, the dialogue afterwards is, how do we expand this next time?

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And how do we bring a few more people in

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for another cohort or things like that?

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But yeah, it was all within a single organization is what they were doing.

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Yeah.

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And I'm curious, what sort of ground rules did they set

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or did they provide general ideas of areas to focus in on?

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How did they frame that up?

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Yeah.

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So this one, we spent kind of the morning of that first day

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really diving into some of the fundamentals of innovation,

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how you promote it, prompt it, how it fits within the culture at that organization.

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And then they started to get an assignment in which there were some ideas

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that they were able to expand on and they've broken up into teams.

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And we ran an idea lab, like a World Cafe format facilitation

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to help break out and get down some of those ideas.

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And then that second day was a lot of just building out their solutions,

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working in their teams.

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They were about four or five in a team.

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-Yeah.

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Getting ready for a presentation at the end of that second day.

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How did you help the senior team, the executives,

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know what to say or what not to say at the end?

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And there's a story behind this that I'll share,

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but give me a sense...

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How did the executives show up?

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How did they, what did they say or not at the end?

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We really kind of briefed them in terms of

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they knew what the assignment was.

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They knew they'd been working on this for just about a day

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and a half on the project and that the teams were excited

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to share the ideas and they were there to ask questions,

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to be able to share some thoughts and ideas.

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But it wasn't a, you know, let's try and pick things apart

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and dig into it to make...

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So we tried to keep it on a positive note.

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-Yeah, yeah.

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So you asked the question for a reason.

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(laughing)

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What's behind that?

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Yeah.

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So I led an innovation summit several years ago

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and at end of the two days, the senior leadership team came in

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and listened to all of the presentations

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and just totally shot holes through all of them,

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didn't adopt a thing,

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and began to tell everybody why they were wrong.

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(laughing)

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And it was, I'm laughing now because otherwise I would be crying.

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And it was one of the most like before the end,

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it was one of the most empowering, energizing, like innovative,

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great ideas.

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And they were, it was just shot down and people left

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so demoralized.

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(laughing)

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(laughing)
-Oh no.

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-It was...

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And I'll never forget, like the CEO, I was coaching him and his team,

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saying, this is how you want to respond.

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Please.

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And he's like, wow, you are really concerned about the responses at the end.

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And I'm like, yes.

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And I did everything I could.

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But anyway, it was one of those big learning moments.

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It's a learning opportunity for all involved.

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-Yeah.

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Yeah.

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-Yup.

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Interesting.

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So, great idea though, to do it the right way

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and to then frame it up, a lot of great innovation summits.

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And what I love about the example is

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it's a bit of a free moment to allow people to explore and there's

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all sorts of great ideas of Google, you know, 20% of your time.

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And that's been used as kind of a yardstick, pros and cons

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with all of these things.

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But the point is to unleash in formal ways that innovative thinking.

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-Yeah.

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And there's so many ways innovation can come about.

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I mean, it doesn't have to be a new product offering.

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It can be an innovation in a process of how it's done,

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both internal or external facing.

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And there's lots of opportunities.

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And this one was more focused on an outward facing side,

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-Mm hmm.

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but even getting feedback from the group afterwards,

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it's how do you even expand the degrees of freedom

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in terms of those topics that they can select from.

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And as I've been involved in a few of these,

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the more degrees of freedom you give that group,

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I think it exponentially increases the ideas.

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-That's fantastic.

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So segueing from this innovation comment,

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innovation is often one of those skills that leaders need

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and they want to develop in addition to a long list of other skills.

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And so the question we want to tackle today, Peter,

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is whether it's innovation or whether it's communication or coaching

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or managing change or strategic thinking,

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all sorts of different skill sets

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that leaders need to develop and improve upon.

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How do we help do that,

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we as leaders and all of us as we're listeners here,

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and do it in a strategic way,

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so it's not just one offs?

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Now, maybe that's the place to start,

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but ultimately, how do we more clearly connect it

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to the strategy of the organization

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and to a broader, more specific talent strategy?

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And that's where we want to connect those dots

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and to be able to help us have that conversation.

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I want to introduce our strategic talent framework.

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And it's a three-part framework, and we can use that to guide our conversations.

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The first part is all about determining.

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Determining the talent strategy,

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determining the skills, determining the critical positions,

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determining the overall need and focus of the workforce development effort.

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And then the second stage is to discuss.

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And this is where you have the talent reviews

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and the succession planning conversations

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and the more formal conversations around

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how do we feel these folks are, in objective ways,

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against the skills that are needed within those positions?

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And then that leads to the third phase, which is the development,

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syncing up the development to the overall talent strategy

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and the conversations around the talent review and succession

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and getting very specific around the skills and approaches to then develop

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and then repeat and keep going.

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So this determine, discuss, and develop, we want to dive deeper into.

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So Peter, as you're here in this framework, what are initial thoughts

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that are going through your head as you've done this

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for so many different client organizations over the years?

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Where should we begin with this?

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Yeah, it's a question that comes up so often as we get involved,

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and particularly as we get to know clients even better

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and get to know their organizations and the pain points

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and some of the common struggles organizations have to fill that talent gap,

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to really understand what is the level of talent we have?

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How do we develop and improve and identify those individuals

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who are going to be the future leaders of this organization?

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And...

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And there's often, it just gets overwhelming.

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And I think we can look at this very, I say simply,

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and recognizing it's not simple, but we can look at this just,

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I think, at a basic level of, let's just take an example

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of a succession planning conversation and how that is illustrated

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with these three Ds.

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Because this framework applies to so many things.

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But if we're looking at succession planning, okay, determining.

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How does one determine how an individual is doing,

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where they are being plotted or placed or assessed

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based on an organization's need?

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So this is where a nine-box framework might come into play

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or other tools of that nature.

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So you have that determination, and then you're not just doing that exercise in a bubble.

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It's coming and bringing people together to talk about it,

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to have that conversation.

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And this is where that talent review, this discussion part happens,

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in which you're able to get feedback from multiple people

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across an organization so that there's an awareness of the talent that is there.

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And then finally, we're not just stopping of, okay, yep,

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we all agree they're in this box on the plot.

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No, no, now we're looking at, okay, these are strengths.

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These are areas of opportunities.

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What are we doing?

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What plan is in place?

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How are we giving them opportunities to grow?

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Because that's really the whole point of this whole process.

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It's not just, ah, we feel good.

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Everybody's plotted on their chart.

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Now we can go back and talk about it again in a year.

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And unfortunately, it kind of feels like it is that way.

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So that's kind of a quick, again, summary of that determine, discuss,

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develop side of it.

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So let's dig a little deeper as we think about determining.

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What tips or suggestions would you give, Daniel?

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And that's where I go back to, like, what the heck

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is the strategy of the organization?

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And how do we approach talent?

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And let's be upfront about it, because there are some organizations

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that it's kind of an up or out talent approach.

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If you're not ready to get promoted in 12, 18, 24 months,

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then we're not going to invest in you.

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And that's not where we're going to focus.

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And I want to be clear, none of this is right or wrong.

252
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:46,541
It's matching that talent strategy with the strategy of the business

253
00:13:46,916 --> 00:13:48,833
and being upfront about it with people.

254
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:53,458
Maybe that's a talent strategy of we are a lifer.

255
00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:56,375
We want you to build a career here.

256
00:13:56,750 --> 00:14:00,041
And we're going to then help you have lots of options

257
00:14:00,041 --> 00:14:03,666
and continue to develop in position for a long time

258
00:14:03,666 --> 00:14:08,708
and or move you around in various places and give you potential opportunities.

259
00:14:09,125 --> 00:14:12,666
That's a distinctly different approach as well.

260
00:14:12,833 --> 00:14:15,791
There might be other considerations such as,

261
00:14:16,083 --> 00:14:20,333
are you a smaller organization in a high growth situation?

262
00:14:20,916 --> 00:14:24,583
All right, then the talent philosophy is going to be very different

263
00:14:24,583 --> 00:14:26,583
and it's going to be rapid, it's going to be fast,

264
00:14:26,583 --> 00:14:28,000
it's going to be skill development.

265
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,250
Are you going to be maybe in a situation where maybe it's

266
00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:36,750
you're in a larger organization and it's maybe a little slower

267
00:14:37,041 --> 00:14:39,166
of a marketplace or an industry

268
00:14:39,375 --> 00:14:42,708
or you're more of a mature organization and it's larger.

269
00:14:43,958 --> 00:14:48,208
You may not be able to be promoted in even

270
00:14:48,208 --> 00:14:52,583
four or five or seven years because it's a slower moving thing.

271
00:14:52,583 --> 00:14:57,416
And especially if that organization values loyalty or tenure,

272
00:14:58,333 --> 00:15:00,291
then that's a distinct talent strategy.

273
00:15:00,583 --> 00:15:02,291
Let's be upfront and be clear about it.

274
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:07,291
All these are important to be very specific about.

275
00:15:07,791 --> 00:15:12,125
And they go into that talent strategy statement.

276
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,916
And that's where we often will start with clients

277
00:15:14,916 --> 00:15:18,083
to be able to be... let's write these talent statements.

278
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:24,416
We are committed to, we believe in, we want to support people who.

279
00:15:24,958 --> 00:15:28,166
All of these are statements to be able to help express

280
00:15:28,583 --> 00:15:32,666
what people can expect to manage their own expectations.

281
00:15:33,291 --> 00:15:38,916
And then as we've developed that, it then helps us recognize,

282
00:15:39,166 --> 00:15:43,750
or rather the organization to recognize what should we do next?

283
00:15:44,458 --> 00:15:49,000
And how many different positions are we going to invest in?

284
00:15:49,833 --> 00:15:52,875
And is it everybody, all positions?

285
00:15:53,583 --> 00:15:56,750
Are we going to emphasize certain positions more than others?

286
00:15:57,583 --> 00:16:02,208
And that's then this next conversation around these critical positions.

287
00:16:02,541 --> 00:16:06,750
And I'll just say, this can be so hard

288
00:16:07,708 --> 00:16:13,250
because nobody likes to hear that your position is not critical.

289
00:16:14,666 --> 00:16:17,291
And so I'll, I'll, I'll define that more clearly.

290
00:16:17,666 --> 00:16:22,250
A critical position is one that is very hard to fill

291
00:16:22,750 --> 00:16:29,208
and/or takes at least six plus months to get somebody fully proficient in.

292
00:16:30,833 --> 00:16:36,875
And then either one of those, and it has a significant value add

293
00:16:37,291 --> 00:16:39,750
to the most strategic parts of the business.

294
00:16:40,666 --> 00:16:41,125
-Mm hmm.

295
00:16:41,833 --> 00:16:43,916
-Now that's not every position.

296
00:16:44,291 --> 00:16:49,125
So you have critical positions and then you also have important positions.

297
00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:52,958
Nearly all of the other positions are important.

298
00:16:53,583 --> 00:16:56,500
They might not be as critical, important.

299
00:16:56,708 --> 00:17:00,666
And then you have essential and those essential positions.

300
00:17:00,791 --> 00:17:05,333
So we often think of in those categories, but the critical positions,

301
00:17:05,333 --> 00:17:09,583
they deserve the most attention to be able to develop...

302
00:17:10,708 --> 00:17:11,708
talent for.

303
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,833
Anyway, that that's the place to then go next.

304
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,666
And it's so helpful to have that because it,

305
00:17:18,958 --> 00:17:20,583
it provides a filter.

306
00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:23,625
Because especially when we're talking about large organizations,

307
00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:25,708
or even if you're doing this within a business unit

308
00:17:25,708 --> 00:17:29,500
of a large organization across, like it can be overwhelming.

309
00:17:30,083 --> 00:17:32,916
And I think that's one of the main reasons why so often

310
00:17:33,250 --> 00:17:36,250
these talent-based initiatives and frameworks,

311
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,041
they stop before they really get to the end

312
00:17:39,833 --> 00:17:42,958
because you don't want to offend anybody by not including them.

313
00:17:42,958 --> 00:17:43,666
It's just too...

314
00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:44,625
So what level?

315
00:17:44,625 --> 00:17:47,375
And, and you go, well, we're just going to start at this level,

316
00:17:47,375 --> 00:17:48,791
but that's taking a lot of work.

317
00:17:48,791 --> 00:17:51,958
And by the time you're thinking that waterfall trickle-down approach

318
00:17:51,958 --> 00:17:55,041
to get down within all levels of an organization,

319
00:17:55,666 --> 00:17:58,500
it's like, oh man, we've stopped.

320
00:17:58,916 --> 00:17:59,708
You know? It just...

321
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,750
So you're having that first off,

322
00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:05,666
having those talent strategy statements are powerful

323
00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:08,791
because it helps to then give the focus on

324
00:18:08,791 --> 00:18:12,083
what it is we're looking for and why we're doing it.

325
00:18:12,791 --> 00:18:17,958
And then to make sure you're focusing first on those most critical positions.

326
00:18:18,541 --> 00:18:20,791
And so even right there, it's given it a good place to,

327
00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:24,500
to start because you can't do it with everybody all at once.

328
00:18:24,708 --> 00:18:25,041
-Yeah.

329
00:18:25,666 --> 00:18:26,041
Okay.

330
00:18:26,041 --> 00:18:31,541
So when clients ask you, how many positions should we focus on?

331
00:18:32,583 --> 00:18:36,791
That is an important question, hard to answer.

332
00:18:37,416 --> 00:18:42,041
I often will say, let's try to make it as small

333
00:18:42,041 --> 00:18:46,583
of a number as we can, at least for year one.

334
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:53,208
And the top leaders, the five or six or seven in the leadership role, yes.

335
00:18:53,875 --> 00:18:55,166
Maybe the next level.

336
00:18:56,666 --> 00:18:58,458
And let's stop there.

337
00:18:59,208 --> 00:19:02,958
And or maybe there's one or two other key feeder positions

338
00:19:02,958 --> 00:19:06,000
or another VP or another director level.

339
00:19:06,541 --> 00:19:08,250
Can we just do that right?

340
00:19:08,791 --> 00:19:11,166
You know, tackle that for year one.

341
00:19:11,625 --> 00:19:16,041
We can always expand versus let's do all people leaders

342
00:19:16,333 --> 00:19:19,041
or let's do everybody in the organization.

343
00:19:19,416 --> 00:19:22,458
And when you start getting into hundreds and hundreds of people

344
00:19:22,458 --> 00:19:24,500
and hundreds of positions,

345
00:19:25,125 --> 00:19:26,958
especially if you're just starting,

346
00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:29,708
or you were kind of rebooting.

347
00:19:30,458 --> 00:19:31,208
Overwhelming.

348
00:19:31,875 --> 00:19:37,416
And not all of those positions are equal in value to the business,

349
00:19:37,416 --> 00:19:40,250
hence focusing on the critical ones.

350
00:19:40,750 --> 00:19:42,125
20, 25, 30.

351
00:19:42,125 --> 00:19:45,708
I'm realizing I'm answering my own question and let me shut up,

352
00:19:45,708 --> 00:19:46,083
(laughing)

353
00:19:46,083 --> 00:19:46,500
(laughing)
Peter.

354
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:47,750
(laughing)

355
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:49,291
How would you answer this?

356
00:19:49,291 --> 00:19:50,833
(laughing)

357
00:19:50,833 --> 00:19:52,375
It's a good answer you're giving.

358
00:19:52,583 --> 00:19:55,583
I mean, you can give the classic psychological answer of,

359
00:19:55,583 --> 00:19:59,416
well, it depends, you know, because every scenario is a little bit different.

360
00:19:59,416 --> 00:19:59,875
-Yeah.

361
00:19:59,875 --> 00:20:01,958
-But you're actually reminding me of a situation.

362
00:20:01,958 --> 00:20:06,708
I was recently working with a leadership team of a business unit

363
00:20:07,166 --> 00:20:11,291
and we were really helping to dig in and prioritize

364
00:20:11,291 --> 00:20:14,583
some of their strategic efforts over this next year,

365
00:20:14,833 --> 00:20:17,916
over the subsequent year that was coming up.

366
00:20:18,458 --> 00:20:20,083
And they'd identified it.

367
00:20:20,083 --> 00:20:25,791
And one of the challenges they kept having as things kept being put on their plate

368
00:20:25,791 --> 00:20:27,791
and why we needed to focus on this prioritization

369
00:20:27,791 --> 00:20:32,125
is there was a small percentage of their overall workforce

370
00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:36,541
that continued to be tapped for all of these extra initiatives.

371
00:20:37,041 --> 00:20:37,416
-Right.

372
00:20:37,708 --> 00:20:41,875
-You know, it's the same, you know, quarter or so of their total workforce.

373
00:20:42,583 --> 00:20:45,625
And I had to keep pausing and saying, look,

374
00:20:46,166 --> 00:20:48,750
yes, we're talking about prioritizations here,

375
00:20:49,083 --> 00:20:52,291
but do you recognize prioritization is really not your core issue?

376
00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:55,000
You have a talent issue.

377
00:20:56,916 --> 00:21:00,250
You have a talent pool that is not being developed

378
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,791
to meet the needs that are required of this organization.

379
00:21:05,125 --> 00:21:09,041
And that turned it totally on its ear because then you have the opportunity

380
00:21:09,041 --> 00:21:12,541
to build out these talent statements to be able to say, well, wait a minute,

381
00:21:13,166 --> 00:21:14,666
why are we limiting ourselves?

382
00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:18,375
What are we doing to grow and build and identify the needs?

383
00:21:18,708 --> 00:21:22,583
Do we have individuals that are not performing that or are not in the right role?

384
00:21:23,291 --> 00:21:26,208
You know, and so just to broaden that and that's really

385
00:21:26,208 --> 00:21:29,833
where we're getting into more of that discussion conversation

386
00:21:30,166 --> 00:21:31,541
as you start to identify

387
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:32,375
-Yeah.

388
00:21:32,375 --> 00:21:33,875
and determine these things.

389
00:21:34,541 --> 00:21:38,750
I love that because it raises it back to a strategic conversation

390
00:21:39,083 --> 00:21:42,583
and it takes it away from the person per se

391
00:21:42,791 --> 00:21:45,000
and focuses on the work itself

392
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,375
and what's really needed and where the value is.

393
00:21:47,708 --> 00:21:51,041
And then you can insert the person in the skill set to say,

394
00:21:51,458 --> 00:21:52,291
are they aligned?

395
00:21:52,291 --> 00:21:55,833
How can we help them be most successful in that current role?

396
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,666
Or what conversations do we need to have with them

397
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,458
to accelerate their development because they aren't doing as well?

398
00:22:05,791 --> 00:22:07,958
Or we need to have that tough conversation

399
00:22:07,958 --> 00:22:10,291
to shift them to a different role.

400
00:22:10,625 --> 00:22:15,458
And that strategic viewpoint then often will help accelerate

401
00:22:15,458 --> 00:22:21,333
and identify the conversations we need to have that maybe are not being held.

402
00:22:22,458 --> 00:22:22,833
-Yeah.

403
00:22:23,333 --> 00:22:24,916
And they're not the easy conversations.

404
00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:28,291
It also helps you see where you have gaps in skill set

405
00:22:28,875 --> 00:22:30,375
at an organizational level.

406
00:22:31,041 --> 00:22:33,541
And we'll hear this term strategic hires,

407
00:22:33,916 --> 00:22:35,583
you know, it gets thrown around all the time

408
00:22:35,833 --> 00:22:37,458
and it can mean a lot of different things.

409
00:22:37,458 --> 00:22:42,375
And I think one of the most effective ways to actually make a strategic hire

410
00:22:42,875 --> 00:22:46,083
is to have highlighted and recognize that this is a capability,

411
00:22:46,083 --> 00:22:49,000
this is a skill set that we currently are lacking in.

412
00:22:49,666 --> 00:22:52,125
We need to bring that in from the outside

413
00:22:52,125 --> 00:22:55,375
because we can't just develop it in here.

414
00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:58,125
You bring that in, hopefully then it's going to spark some other

415
00:22:58,125 --> 00:23:01,208
development and growth around it because people have had experience

416
00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:04,750
seeing this vision at scale at a larger organization

417
00:23:04,750 --> 00:23:08,416
or looking at how a different operation could be executed

418
00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:10,083
than what we currently are doing.

419
00:23:10,416 --> 00:23:10,833
-Yeah.

420
00:23:11,833 --> 00:23:12,250
Yep.

421
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:18,250
It's interesting just as the meeting I have right after this recording of the podcast

422
00:23:18,625 --> 00:23:23,666
is to prepare for a talent review for a large manufacturing organization next week.

423
00:23:24,125 --> 00:23:29,208
And this is year two for them as they have rebooted their journey.

424
00:23:29,791 --> 00:23:34,416
And the decision was made to focus on 35 positions.

425
00:23:35,416 --> 00:23:40,500
And we have now, especially in year two, identified with greater clarity

426
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:44,458
the skills that are going to be needed at each level

427
00:23:45,291 --> 00:23:50,208
and each position, which is also part of that determining first phase.

428
00:23:50,916 --> 00:23:53,958
Once you identify the positions you want to focus on,

429
00:23:54,291 --> 00:23:57,750
what are the skills that are going to be needed?

430
00:23:58,333 --> 00:24:03,583
And it's okay to start with a broad set of skills across all leaders.

431
00:24:03,916 --> 00:24:05,333
That's a good place to start.

432
00:24:06,166 --> 00:24:09,291
Five or seven or 10 or something like this that can be

433
00:24:09,291 --> 00:24:12,250
related to your values, your leadership profile,

434
00:24:12,708 --> 00:24:14,125
a great place to start.

435
00:24:14,708 --> 00:24:21,083
And then as organizations continue to mature, you can divide out those skills by level.

436
00:24:22,083 --> 00:24:26,208
And that's kind of the next stage of looking at

437
00:24:26,208 --> 00:24:31,375
what are the three, four or five skills needed by level, technical,

438
00:24:31,375 --> 00:24:35,416
but especially then the manager and leadership skills that are going to be

439
00:24:35,416 --> 00:24:41,083
most important to help the organization, again, accomplish its strategic goals.

440
00:24:43,625 --> 00:24:44,041
-Yeah.

441
00:24:44,166 --> 00:24:45,958
It makes it very real.

442
00:24:46,458 --> 00:24:48,625
And I think it also helps make it tangible.

443
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,500
So that the decision-making process feels more clear

444
00:24:53,833 --> 00:24:54,333
-Mm hmm.

445
00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:55,416
as you're working at it.

446
00:24:55,541 --> 00:24:59,666
Because then you have that determining, then we launch into more of the discussion.

447
00:25:00,166 --> 00:25:04,208
And sure, there's going to be conversations as you're determining all of these things.

448
00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:07,500
It's not to say we determine in a bubble,

449
00:25:07,833 --> 00:25:11,625
vacuum in a backroom office, and now we just bring it all out.

450
00:25:12,125 --> 00:25:15,666
You're going to have people involved and hopefully the right people involved

451
00:25:15,666 --> 00:25:18,625
to be discussing each of these steps along the way.

452
00:25:19,375 --> 00:25:23,291
But as we have identified the critical statements,

453
00:25:23,291 --> 00:25:26,000
the critical positions, those critical skills,

454
00:25:26,791 --> 00:25:31,041
we're then able to then share that and really then talk about

455
00:25:31,041 --> 00:25:34,083
individuals at a broader level.

456
00:25:34,083 --> 00:25:37,291
And whether that is at a talent review in which you bring

457
00:25:37,291 --> 00:25:41,458
an entire leadership team together and do that or whatever format that might take.

458
00:25:42,208 --> 00:25:48,708
That conversation, it just highlights and it brings out the content,

459
00:25:48,958 --> 00:25:53,958
the materials, the fodder by which then you can build out these development plans.

460
00:25:53,958 --> 00:25:54,291
-Yeah.

461
00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:59,875
And, you know, speaking of this specific example that I was just referencing,

462
00:26:00,833 --> 00:26:03,875
one of the things that we've learned about now in year two

463
00:26:04,083 --> 00:26:07,875
is to identify a specific skill for the more senior level leaders

464
00:26:08,375 --> 00:26:10,625
that wasn't previously identified.

465
00:26:10,916 --> 00:26:13,875
And that skill is to develop talent

466
00:26:14,833 --> 00:26:17,833
and to, as a senior level leader,

467
00:26:18,208 --> 00:26:22,625
one of the skills that we are now expecting you to be good at

468
00:26:23,083 --> 00:26:28,125
is to develop other talent, which in some ways is kind of a duh.

469
00:26:28,583 --> 00:26:32,625
However, it's not because it's not always thought of

470
00:26:32,625 --> 00:26:34,500
as part of your job.

471
00:26:34,875 --> 00:26:38,291
But now in year two, we can add that to the skill set

472
00:26:38,666 --> 00:26:44,500
from which we can then view ourselves and see how we are doing in it.

473
00:26:44,833 --> 00:26:49,000
And then we can get, of course, more specific with each different level,

474
00:26:49,375 --> 00:26:53,125
which leads to the other part of this determine process.

475
00:26:53,750 --> 00:27:00,125
And that is to identify and create a talent profile for each person

476
00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:03,500
of which there will be conversations about.

477
00:27:04,166 --> 00:27:10,166
And that talent profile is critical for each person to complete on their own

478
00:27:10,541 --> 00:27:15,875
so that the leaders are able to understand their self-perception.

479
00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:18,875
What are the things they feel they're good at or not so good at?

480
00:27:18,875 --> 00:27:20,958
And let's put the performance reviews

481
00:27:20,958 --> 00:27:22,583
so there's objective criteria.

482
00:27:23,041 --> 00:27:25,291
What are the engagement review information?

483
00:27:25,791 --> 00:27:28,583
Did they complete their goals or not?

484
00:27:28,833 --> 00:27:31,583
Did they hit the deadlines that they agreed to?

485
00:27:31,958 --> 00:27:35,958
These are the objective measures that absolutely need to be included

486
00:27:35,958 --> 00:27:37,375
on a talent profile.

487
00:27:37,833 --> 00:27:42,708
And then also, what are the comments from the boss, their manager?

488
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,291
And that needs to be included on the talent profile,

489
00:27:45,291 --> 00:27:48,208
as well as the aspirations of the person.

490
00:27:48,791 --> 00:27:49,083
The...

491
00:27:49,375 --> 00:27:50,083
The one...

492
00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:51,708
The thing that makes...
-That last part.

493
00:27:51,833 --> 00:27:52,125
-Yeah.

494
00:27:52,291 --> 00:27:57,208
-That last part is so important because you can be preparing somebody

495
00:27:57,625 --> 00:28:00,541
to be the next VP or whatever it might be.

496
00:28:00,833 --> 00:28:03,958
If they don't care and they don't want to do it,

497
00:28:04,791 --> 00:28:08,625
are you really developing them or is this wasted resources?

498
00:28:09,041 --> 00:28:15,375
So getting their input... again, these are not processes that are done just in isolation,

499
00:28:15,375 --> 00:28:16,791
you know, covert acts.

500
00:28:17,083 --> 00:28:17,416
-Yeah.

501
00:28:18,083 --> 00:28:19,791
They need to be included.

502
00:28:20,666 --> 00:28:23,625
I just wanted to really hit that last part because we've seen

503
00:28:23,625 --> 00:28:26,500
where it's not it's not even taken into consideration.

504
00:28:27,291 --> 00:28:27,625
-Yeah.

505
00:28:28,083 --> 00:28:28,833
Thank you.

506
00:28:28,833 --> 00:28:30,541
I was going to emphasize that, too.

507
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,583
And yet it may be an opportunity to then talk to the

508
00:28:34,583 --> 00:28:36,708
individual and paint a different picture,

509
00:28:37,083 --> 00:28:38,541
maybe challenge thinking.

510
00:28:38,541 --> 00:28:38,916
Sure.

511
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,958
But it's not just to assume they're going to want it.

512
00:28:43,250 --> 00:28:49,250
However, I will say if the talent philosophy is one of a chess master.

513
00:28:50,791 --> 00:28:54,875
In other words, senior level leaders move people around

514
00:28:54,875 --> 00:28:59,708
and it is understood that you are to simply say yes

515
00:29:00,166 --> 00:29:02,583
and that's under that's the expectation.

516
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,500
Again, neither right nor wrong.

517
00:29:05,333 --> 00:29:08,708
But that is a... if that's the strategy.

518
00:29:09,916 --> 00:29:12,541
I don't know if that's always as effective,

519
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,041
especially today with people wanting to have more choice.

520
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,291
However, that's that's an approach.

521
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,541
The majority of the time, though, what we find, Peter,

522
00:29:22,541 --> 00:29:23,916
just as you were describing,

523
00:29:24,291 --> 00:29:28,083
check in with the person, see what they are after.

524
00:29:28,375 --> 00:29:31,208
And you can educate them as to more possibilities

525
00:29:31,208 --> 00:29:32,708
that they maybe hadn't thought of.

526
00:29:33,125 --> 00:29:37,166
But check in with them, especially say they're elderly folks,

527
00:29:37,416 --> 00:29:40,958
are aging and they need to be present in their lives.

528
00:29:41,375 --> 00:29:43,208
They can't travel as much, perhaps.

529
00:29:43,375 --> 00:29:44,666
Oh, this is good to know.

530
00:29:44,875 --> 00:29:47,416
It has nothing to do with who they are as a person.

531
00:29:47,791 --> 00:29:48,333
No, no, no.

532
00:29:48,458 --> 00:29:50,333
It's where their life stage is.

533
00:29:50,583 --> 00:29:54,541
Maybe they have young kids and they need to be able to stay close to other...

534
00:29:55,083 --> 00:30:01,083
There's a variety of factors to consider before plans are made about them.

535
00:30:02,041 --> 00:30:02,333
-Yep.

536
00:30:02,708 --> 00:30:06,083
And I think the last point we'll make on this part

537
00:30:06,083 --> 00:30:09,916
is recognizing those aspirations and these talent profiles.

538
00:30:10,375 --> 00:30:15,416
It's been very important that there are at least two clear tracks

539
00:30:15,875 --> 00:30:17,750
and areas of focus for individuals.

540
00:30:18,166 --> 00:30:22,375
We're not just exclusively focusing on the development of leadership

541
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:24,541
or people leader talent.

542
00:30:25,125 --> 00:30:29,416
We're also focusing on the ability and of technical abilities,

543
00:30:29,625 --> 00:30:33,541
you know, that critical competencies, those other areas,

544
00:30:33,541 --> 00:30:37,166
because not everybody is motivated by wanting to be a people manager.

545
00:30:38,083 --> 00:30:41,500
But yet you want to create an atmosphere in which you're recognizing

546
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:44,166
achievement on both avenues there.

547
00:30:44,416 --> 00:30:44,666
-Yeah.

548
00:30:44,666 --> 00:30:46,500
-Because you need talent on both sides.

549
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:49,500
So I think that's where in that process we have to be

550
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:53,833
very much aware that we're not just ignoring one side or the other.

551
00:30:54,958 --> 00:30:58,666
And I think we've started elaborating on this so much.

552
00:30:58,666 --> 00:31:00,250
I think we're going to have to do a part two

553
00:31:00,708 --> 00:31:01,708
(laughing)

554
00:31:01,708 --> 00:31:02,916
of this to get into the three D's.

555
00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:04,000
I completely agree.

556
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:09,666
So, listeners, part two will focus on the discussing

557
00:31:09,958 --> 00:31:12,083
and the developing side of this.

558
00:31:12,375 --> 00:31:17,750
So look out for that next episode, which will be coming out soon as well.

559
00:31:18,625 --> 00:31:23,333
So otherwise, Peter, it's always fun chatting with you about all these things.

560
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:28,875
Is there a one thing that you'd want to leave people with

561
00:31:28,875 --> 00:31:33,833
as they're wanting to connect at least that determined part to the development?

562
00:31:33,833 --> 00:31:35,041
What would you want to emphasize?

563
00:31:36,833 --> 00:31:39,041
I think the one thing is going to be two parts.

564
00:31:39,375 --> 00:31:40,125
(laughing)

565
00:31:40,125 --> 00:31:41,041
I'll expand it.

566
00:31:41,458 --> 00:31:45,375
Is one, you want to be sure and make the strategic connection clear.

567
00:31:45,666 --> 00:31:47,083
That connection to your strategy.

568
00:31:48,291 --> 00:31:49,416
We kind of glossed over it.

569
00:31:49,416 --> 00:31:51,916
And maybe we'll put some examples of those in the show notes

570
00:31:52,208 --> 00:31:57,416
of what these talent strategy statements are, because those are absolutely essential.

571
00:31:57,791 --> 00:32:00,625
And the second part of it is start small.

572
00:32:01,166 --> 00:32:01,541
-Mmm.

573
00:32:01,541 --> 00:32:05,833
-Start with a group and a size that is reasonable.

574
00:32:05,833 --> 00:32:07,083
Think beta testing.

575
00:32:07,375 --> 00:32:08,291
Think pilot.

576
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,000
So you're kind to yourself, you're kind of the process,

577
00:32:12,333 --> 00:32:14,625
and you're not over promising to an organization

578
00:32:14,625 --> 00:32:17,125
that then you might not be able to fulfill.

579
00:32:19,375 --> 00:32:23,375
Great advice, especially because whoever you focus on,

580
00:32:23,375 --> 00:32:27,750
however many positions, you're going to want to have development plans for them

581
00:32:28,208 --> 00:32:29,791
and invest in their development.

582
00:32:30,458 --> 00:32:34,541
And let's do it really well for those positions

583
00:32:34,541 --> 00:32:36,416
and people who add the greatest value

584
00:32:36,875 --> 00:32:40,083
or who can add the greatest value in the future.

585
00:32:40,583 --> 00:32:43,333
Because that's the other angle for us to pay attention to.

586
00:32:43,958 --> 00:32:45,250
Peter, always a pleasure.

587
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:48,583
Listeners, thanks so much for joining us as you're getting

588
00:32:48,583 --> 00:32:53,875
more and more tools and ideas to help you grow your own leadership development

589
00:32:53,875 --> 00:32:57,500
and capability, as well as the leadership of others.

590
00:32:58,250 --> 00:33:01,416
Please like and subscribe and we'll look forward to having you join

591
00:33:01,416 --> 00:33:02,708
at a future podcast.

592
00:33:02,708 --> 00:33:03,291
Take care, everyone.

593
00:33:04,416 --> 00:33:07,750
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594
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:11,583
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595
00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:14,875
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596
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:18,791
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597
00:33:18,791 --> 00:33:21,416
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598
00:33:21,875 --> 00:33:24,166
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